I am honored by that.
Steph:
I, I’m just so glad that you’re here. I also, I mean, for people who started listening to this podcast literally five years ago, they’re probably like, and I’ve been very open about, hey, like things change, I’m changing. I’m much more curious about all sorts of things now than it was before. And I think that that’s so number one, first astrologer, number two, somebody who’s done readings for me personally, and I just really love how you express things. And I think it’s very compelling. How you are weaving in right that this concept or these fields of evidence-based research of psychology of all these different fields and then kind of processing it through the lens of astrology, making, making astrology less, sort of heteronormative at the same time and like how did you so I’ve been dying to ask you this question.
Colin:
And thank you for the kind words I mean so much because you were such an educated woman and the fact that you resonate with my work means a great deal to me. So thank you. You’re welcome.
Steph:
How did you come to doing this work in this way? And I know everybody has this you know, a journey right? It’s never just an entry point. And here you are, but you know, why start to weave these things in because I think a lot of people have this view of astrology of like, I open you know the paper every day and it’s got this little blurb about Pisces, and that’s, you know, that’s what I know about astrology, which is what a lot of people that’s their only introduction to astrology. So you know, have explained to us how it is that you’ve come to do this work and why you’ve woven these threads into the fabric of what you do.
Colin:
Oh, wow. Okay, great question. Well, I think I’ll just begin by saying that there really is only one truth spoken many different ways. Right? And if other people find that true through more evidence-based secular and scientific approaches have at it, right, and if other people find it from a metaphysical, spiritual, esoteric point of view, more power to you as well, I think I found a longing for the metaphysical pursuit. When I was in my really 1213, early, early years, because my mother spoke about astrology often, and I just loved it. I was like, Wow, so you tell me the stars and the mythology and the influence and I just ran with it. And then in my early 20s, I started reading the work of Dr. Renee Brown, and Harville Hendricks and Helen McCauley, Han, who are theorists in the field of personal growth and relational psychologies, and I was really astounded because they were saying a lot of the Kind of values and practices that astrology was to. So I was happy to merge those fields because there is only one truth just spoken many different ways. And I think at the core, spirituality is just the path of the heart and the healing of the mind. And I believe that mental health and therapeutic and clinical experts in the field are trying to do the same thing. So we shouldn’t be saying separate things. Right. That’s the way I’ve always looked at it. And my friends of yours and Talia do it. They are known as they are still twins. I was reading their horoscopes before I ever dreamed to be an astrologer in the early 2000s. And I was so impressed with the way they would say, hey, Gemini, the full moon in your relationship sector means you’re gonna learn about adult attachment styles. So here’s this book to learn all about. And I was like, Wow, so look at that grounded, based of exploring spirituality through psychology. I couldn’t get enough, right. And as my work is progressing, I’m just trying to find the spaces where the quantified Research Methods in astrology need to be updated to reflect the accuracy of the literature in psychology and relational theory, because I do believe that some of it is no longer working, which is why the common critique from some of your listeners maybe, yeah, well, I read that astrology stuff. And it was really reductive and fear-mongering and made me feel disempowered. And that’s totally valid. Right? So that’s why I’m going back to the astrological literature and saying, well, is this really true based on what the researchers and the psychologists are saying? Maybe not. Let’s update it, which does get me into hot water, but I don’t care. I don’t care. Right, you already know as my friend and colleague, I don’t write so well. And then there are spaces in psychology where we also have to say, look, we’ve never had more access to counseling and sessions and psychology and all these resources and yet, we’ve never been more overmedicated having a mental illness. So if you’re not accounting for the psyche and soul, you’re not alone. Holding the whole picture either. So that’s always been my attention. But I just feel a deep psychological imperative to explore it. And I’m glad that people like you are interested in hearing what I have to say. So thank you.
Steph:
Well, I think you, you provide different, really compelling and interesting access points to merge these different worlds together, or to at least get that entry point from a different angle where it may previously have not been accessible because of preconceived notions about what astrology might be or its its limitations or you know, that the just the things that people come to know and believe about it. I mean, what do you what do you see in your, in your experience and talking with the people that you do and being out there doing the work is sort of maybe some of the biggest misunderstandings, right question about what astrology is?
Colin:
Great question. So I do not believe that it determines our outcomes. I believe that as an astrologer who said it and I forgot his name, but he said that astrology is a choice reveal or it’s on a choice maker. So it’s just a map of the stars and an energetic forecast. And we could choose what we want to do we still have free will, and we can believe in astrology at the same time. So I think that’s important. I believe that every single zodiac sign is compatible with every single zodiac sign. I don’t believe in back-compatibility at all. I believe that each and every one of us can increase our relational competency and learn to get along with the rest of the people we need to get along with. And I do not believe that certain zodiac signs or energies have a monopoly on merit. I think all of them are special. So none of them are special. Right? So it’s just like, let’s make sure that each and every one of us arrives a vacation within our astrological charts. And that way we can know that we’re doing the part that we were assigned here to do. So that’s where I investigated I think that astrology can be very accurate into predictive analysis, right, which can then help us be public Paired. But I also think that we can take it too far there too and use astrology to remove uncertainty out of our experience, right? But we don’t want to do that we want to live in faith and walk with resilience and comfort in the unknown with these tools so we could be became the people were capable of being with others and answering the call for the time so much we love.
Steph:
Yeah, I think that’s so important. You know, I think one of the things about not just astrology, but any other kind of personality test, right and like, Okay, I’m Myers Briggs, squarely infj. I mean, I’ve taken that test, a bajillion times. And every time it’s like, oh, you dummy. Why are you taking this quiz? You know, you’re an INFJ like, there’s nothing to see here. So everything from that to I think enneagram nine, my results are usually kind of all over the place with that, although I did tend to be a little bit more this will not surprise you. No Because you know me, I am a three for most of the time, which is the achiever.
Colin:
Yes.
Steph:
Hello. That’s my Capricorn right and
Colin:
better believe it!
Steph:
The deep, deep, compassionate feeling.
Colin:
The healer achiever. I love it. I got Capricorn Pisces Virgo in you. I love it.
Steph:
Yes. So, you know, I think, just as two examples, right, we have so many different personality tests. We have so many different ways to understand ourselves. And I think that’s just one of the deep, over-arching themes that humanity has this like this quest to understand not only ourselves but also other humans and our role in everything and why things are the way they are. But, you know, how would you I think there’s some criticism, and this is a really long-winded question, but I think there’s some criticism about things like knowing your astrological signs or knowing you Your personality through Myers Briggs, or knowing your enneagram in the sense that it can become deterministic.
Colin:
Right? Right. Right.
Steph:
How do you respond to that? Like, how do you see these tools, these personality tests? Or ways that we can understand ourselves?
Colin:
Yeah, well, I think identity is really flexible. It’s not so static. So I think that’s a cheap shot. I also think that’s what they say in a is called contempt before investigation. Right? So if you haven’t really investigated these systems and learned how they wrap language around your identity, and then what it means for your life, and I don’t really want to hear your contempt, right. But I also know that there is a space perhaps where those who say well because I’m a Pisces on this or because I’m a Gemini or Matt. And that’s not really high minded astrology. That’s just people looking for excuses to justify irresponsible behavior and we have no listening for that either. Right? I think that the richest aspect of astrology is that I can say two things. Because I’ve seen your chart, I can tell you a very comprehensive story of what your self-actualization could look like. And you can follow the path here. And then you will unknowingly experience circumstances, situations, and events that serve your highest good and more power to you. But if you don’t, we can cover that too, and discover the resistances that prevent you from expressing this story on earth as it is in the heavens. Right. And then you will live in a space of a lot of mystery and faith. But you will also have a lot of clarity. And I think that’s beautiful that people can experience both and people have been using faith and these systems for to weaponize certainty for eons. Right. But I think that we’re seeing now is it’s really just a template for trying to express the best of ourselves without deterministic language and then also honoring free will and circumstances like COVID-19. Right, where it’s like I could read my chart to kingdom come but what I mean in relationship to what we’re experiencing right now. So we’ll never really have totally unlocked the mystical experiences in life lately and that’s a good thing. But astrology just says okay, Collins Stephanie in the midst of this, let’s make sure that you are still honoring the best of your chart inspiring other people to do the same thing and in that space of collaborative possibility you can get a lot faster you can work a lot faster to get to the solution
Steph:
How then, and these questions are just coming to my brain
Colin:
and it Hello
Steph:
How then do we hold that grace for ourselves to say okay, like shits going down things are just happening the inter Barry Did you just hear that I’m happening things are Yeah, I got a little bit Northeastern when
Colin:
she does, I don’t I love it. I love it. And I always want to call you out on it but that it’s like really Am I in any position to do that? No, go ahead. Oh,
Steph:
I do the same thing with my husband. It’s called mirroring, right. Yeah. You know, anyway. So, you know, how do we have grace for ourselves when shits going down? That we did not expect, right? We were on this trajectory. We’re working on things with personal development with understanding ourselves in the world, seeing where our potentials lie, where our limitations lie, we’re trying to be a good person ship goes down. It’s it’s uncontrollable. It’s almost out of our control. It’s very unknown and very uncertain. What does astrology tell us about how to handle these times where we just feel like, everything’s a fucking mess. I know, Oh, my gosh.
Colin:
Well, there are so many different aspects occurring right now. That can help us make sense of that the two that I want to focus on, have to do with Venus in Gemini, right Venus the planet of relational intelligence. And values in the sign having to do with paradox, right because Gemini were twins, but they were fraternal twins. So they were not of the same. And they use those relational differences as a resource. And I think that one of the things that we can use to make sense of the experiences just like one in the Gemini mythology, a twin died and another one lived on, but then they reunited. Right? I think what we’re gonna want to hold in our minds and hearts throughout this experience is that each and every one of us are being confronted with imminent danger and loss. And each and every one of us are being confronted with the visionary problem-solving skills to create a culture that’s life-sustaining, that will live on and the other side of this pandemic. So both are true. Both are true back to the both at night you and I love so much right. And then the end of the Gemini tale is that the twins reunited and constellations so they can shine above us for eternity. I think we’re I think we’re walking there. But we got to really ask ourselves, where have I did simplistic either/or, where have I not been paying attention? Where have I had Only listening for the problem and not the solution or where have I had a listening for it, nothing bad is going down because I’m in crystals and rainbows and Lottie doll and both are true. So we’re creating these cognition and communication skills in our relationships collectively, so we can walk each other home together, I think and then the other aspect of astrology. That’s really, I think, a healing agent for us now, and you and I both have this sign in our chart, so we can speak to it extensively, is Capricorn. And in simplistic analysis of Capricorn they’re like the CEOs the Miranda Priestley’s of astrology, right, like Big Boss, take no prisoners, etc, etc. But in a deeper level, they just have to do with emotional self-mastery. Right? And I think that what we want to ask ourselves is, how can we be emotionally self mastered so that we can adapt to this extraordinary situation in time, we can maintain impulse control and sobriety and intelligence and wisdom. We can honor when we’re absolutely emotionally overwhelmed and bone-tired but not, you know, offload that onto others. And then we can also make sure that we are focused on the vision of what’s possible, rather than the circumstances of the earth. Ain’t it awful? Because Capricorn energy has no time for that. They’re like, Look, it’s midnight, it’s the 11th hour, but it’s not midnight yet. So everybody get-over yourself because we’re all going through this together, you and everybody else. So let’s not get precious here. Right? And that’s really rise to the occasion within our person hood, because history is asking us to do so. And who do you want to be while you’re in the space of what’s happening? Right? Do you want to be active and triggered and you know, just unresponsive or do you want to go wow, this is crazy. What can I do about it? And who am I? Who can I be in the space of what’s happening? So that would be what I think astrology could clarify, there’s so many ways to explore that. But those are the two that I think could be the most helpful.
Steph:
Yeah, I think that’s really, I think that’s really helpful for people who are just sort of like, how do like what do I do? And, and moving through the different stages. Yes, yes, I’ll do this. Yeah. Because it’s not it’s not going to be the same a month from now as it will be six months from now as it was three weeks ago like it’s things are so in flux and I really love how you talk about both and I think it’s one of the things that has stuck with me the most from the very first time we sat down and talked and you went through my natal chart and I was just thinking, Oh my gosh, and you dropped so many nuggets of wisdom on me, but that’s one of the things that has stuck with me the most because I think it finally clarified and gave language to a lot of it not just the work that I do and I constantly find myself kind of like I’m fascinated with the push-pull of so many things in life.
Colin:
Yeah
Steph:
and yet understanding of how to you know, whereas the Kind of middle ground where we’re, we’re looking for understanding from different perspectives.
Colin:
Yes. Beautiful. And you know what? Okay. I was gonna tell you that. Carl young has said that the paradox is the richest tool to examine the human experience because it’s the only symbol that really does justice to the authenticity of it. Yes. Just to confirm what you’re saying, Yeah,
Steph:
go ahead. The opposite of a great truth is also true, which is a quote that I love. That’s Niels, that’s Niels Bohr. I, like scientists, who are also really interested in quantum the quantum realm and things like that. I love it. It’s so crazy, but I think you know that both and perspective is at once, so comforting, because when you start to expand that view, you start to see, oh, there’s so many different ways to understand this situation. There are so many different things that are illuminated in this time and yet it can be really disorienting because, right people, this is just I think human nature, right? We come to identify ourselves by either or.
Colin:
Exactly continue. Yep.
Steph:
So how does? How like, how would you? How would you start to tease that apart? You know, how does one come to start looking for other perspectives to be open to it? Because I feel like it’s the there’s, there’s a bit of a hard wall to get through sometimes of even being open to the possibility.
Colin:
Yes, yes. of the transition of what’s possible, right. Yeah. Yeah, I know. And I’m really glad that you mentioned the opposite of both then which is either or, because I think even just naming that so that when, when people know Oh, so when I’m in this or that either or a or b, yes or no one or two, you know, thinking I’m actually not accessing the wind web, correct. Right now. It’s okay because that’s what the culture that trains us that we’re indoctrinated by wants us to do. So it’s okay. We’ve all been there, right? I think the way that we start to embrace the both end is by first and foremost fucking embracing vulnerability. Right be as defined through Dr. Bernays, Dr. Bernie Browns research has risk uncertainty, emotional exposure. And to be in the both end and attention of No, it’s this, it’s that and more, right is a very vulnerable place to be. And people love simplistic binary thinking, where, you know, we could just provide them with that scarcity of heroes. So we have a right to be mad at, here’s who to blame. Here’s why you’re completely innocent. And this is what we’re going to do about it. I mean, we see it all the time in politics and social justice movements, and it’s really, really, really dangerous. And what we’re seeing is this growing atomization and recognizing that the center cannot hold, it just can’t, right and so, to really wrap your head around the both end and the not only But also, you’re just gonna want to know that you can’t get there without paying a cost of admission to the vulnerability police. And if you want to, by all means it’ll be the greatest decision you’ll ever make, right? Because I’m sure you can attest to this stuff. But the moment you chose to be vulnerable was the moment you chose your power. Yes.
Steph:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And it didn’t come easy. And I’m sure you’ve gotten sucker punched me too. Yeah. sucks, right? But at least I know that I am who I claim to be. And I don’t have to toe the party lines not to piss other people off and that I don’t belong to any school of thought or anything. Because I belong to me first and foremost, at the end of the day, so do you. So do we all and that’s what allows me to navigate the both ends because I didn’t I don’t have to enroll in any false limiting binary, limiting constricting belief. I just don’t have to and neither does anybody else. That’s what I would say about that. Great question. I love that.
Steph:
I love that. You know, I forgot to tell the listener, our dear listener, the first time that I ever actually saw you.
Colin:
Oh, I was hoping we were gonna read this off because it says sell bananas. That’s a good story. So I I first, I think found you on Instagram through Nygaard for nuni.
Steph:
Yep. Pretty sure. Amazing, amazing human being. I started following you last year. I think it was last year, probably early part of last year. And I think at some point, I mean, I just loved what you had to say immediately and thought, thank you, Colin’s Amazing, amazing human doing amazing things on this planet. And I want to be his friend. And I, you know, I think I put a couple of comments here and there on your Instagram anyway. So for the listener, the most crazy thing happened. I was in New York last fall. Yeah, I came to New York for visiting a beauty counter event. I was going to Marie Forleo goes launch party for her book, and I plan to meet up with a couple of friends of mine in the city. One evening I was taking my one of my friends back to Penn Station. Which if you’ve been to Penn Station is giant, right? It’s the biggest place. I just kept thinking follow the signs and you’ll be fine. I mean, I’m kind of okay with that kind of deal but I was you know, if it’s not place you go every day.
Colin:
Oh, forget it
Steph:
I had I ended up at the new the new jersey railroad here. So I was dropping Julie off. Hey, Julie. She listens to the show. I was shopping at Amtrak. Yep. And I was gonna have to go back to my hotel. She was going back to Maryland. So I turned around, I start I walked down the hall, I go down the stairs, and this human walks in front of me. And all I could see was the back of your head. And I just thought is this you know how you have those moments early is it It is who it is this him is this Colin and I had that moment where I thought do I do I yell his name? Am I gonna look like a crazy person if it’s not him like a simple little movie and I thought fuck it, I’m gonna do it. And so I was like call in. And you had earbuds in son of a bitch.
Steph:
And you’re like, striding obviously, trying to make it to the train, right? Like you’re pretty tall, tall. Are you? six foot three. Okay, yeah, and I’m five foot three. My legs, my little legs are going right. And I just thought of losing him. But it was so fucking weird because this is the part that trips me out and I will never get less tripped out by this kind of thing. of I think about all the little decisions I had to make, oh my god. You had to make to be there at that exact moment and you literally walked in front of me.
Colin:
Jesus Christ, in the city of Manhattan of all places,
Steph:
there’s millions of people. I mean, come on, what!
Colin:
Are the odds on that is bananas? I’m so mad that it might, I don’t know. Furious rush to get on the train. I won’t get a pension. Hi. I love you when you messaged me on Instagram and said, I’m sorry, weird question. Are you in Penn Station right now? I was like, What the fuck? And then, as soon as that happened, the doors closed and my train was moving. Left and been like, where are you?
Steph:
I stopped. I stopped to buy a cupcake. Oh, damn it.
Colin:
Okay, get a compensation stuff. So that’s what I get for not paying attention. But that really is bananas. And I’ll tell you that happens in New York all the time. It’s a big small town. Make no mistake. It is just a big small town. It’s It’s crazy. So
Steph:
yeah, I did. I still love it. And I think I said something and I don’t think I do at the time that you are a twin. Yes. And I said something like I don’t know if you have a it was you or your twin or something and your twin actually is not a guy but I just I was like, is that your twin? Or did I just see you in Penn Station and when you wrote back and said it was you I was like, what is happening right now?
Colin:
My twin sister is your height so you know what this is? This has been the karma I’ve inflicted on the people I love the most for a long time. She’s constantly telling me to slow down and try I keep walking through guys Damn it, but we will have our moment and I think it’s gonna be in San Diego when this physical distance is lifted. I feel like
Steph:
Yeah, yeah, I yeah. Anything really relevant. So this is coming out in two weeks, not next week, but the week after anything super relevant just to kind of round it out for after we self indulged in that story. It’s like the typical New York meet cute but you’re not actually meeting. I know.
Colin:
Damnit, yes, there, there are things happening actually, at the third week of April. So it’ll be the beginning of tourist season the sun and Taurus on Earth Day, which is an earth sign that first are assigned, we have an astrology. And it has to do with matters of personal security. Right. And so often when you read about Taurus energy, the conversation is relegated to financial security and financial freedom, right. But the real wisdom of Taurus energy and the security that they attain has to do with a life that’s informed by a clarification of values and the safety that is given when you know that you are the person you claim to be. And everything that you profess, you practice and you live in to your values. So what I want your listeners to consider is what are the two to three values that they hold in their hearts above all else, as most important, and the reason why I’m saying two or three is because if you have anything more than three, you don’t even really have priorities. You just have like a laundry list of feel-good words for Instagram, right? But two to three values. That’s it and then review on The level of behavior, what your behavior does to reflect that those values are lived into. And what happens at the end of tourist season is we can take stock on our life and say, You know what, every single decision I needed to made to needed to make was informed by those values. And now every lane of my life is in beautiful integrity. And I put my head on my pillow every night knowing I am the fucking bitch, I claim to base so no one can touch me. And that’s where I want your listeners to be is to really review what are my values? And are they situationally based? Or are they decisions that they can make personally right? Like, just before I called you I had a reading with the client, and she had a I was achievement as a value. And while I love the motivation and the healthy striving that’s actually not that is situationally based, right? Because so what if you don’t achieve Where are you? down for the count? Right? So we decided on beauty and justice instead, right, because she can make things beautiful and she can be just wherever she is. Whatever. She’s doing wherever she’s going. And that’s what I would want your listeners to think about. I hope that made sense. But yeah,
Steph:
It totally did. Yeah. And I think you know, especially when big things happen in big shifts happen is is even coming back around right and reassessing your, those top three values for what life is like right now. I mean, what you were doing 10 years ago might not be happening at the moment. So
Colin:
yeah, right. And editing that often is a wonderful idea. Thank you for mentioning that because we do go through very different values based on our personhood, our professional circumstances, financial relational, right? So just taking stock and saying, well, how’s this working out for me so far? Right. How’s this work and, and then we can really determine what the value is that we need to align with to have greater results because the results are the ultimate guru and Taurus security really shows the people who walk their talk quickly. Yeah,
Steph:
So good. All right, tell people where they want to get. Okay, so, first of all I want to write I’m gonna brag on you, but first, okay, your Instagram TV clips and the videos you put together are you have a gift because I don’t know how you are so succinct and to the point and very powerful. You what you say very. Like, you are one of the only people I can think of off the top of my head that can put something together that is short enough for the average person’s attention span. I don’t say that in a mean way. I just feel like we’re bombarded right now we’re having to work with there’s so much information to go so much so much. You do an incredibly skillful job at putting a lot into a short time frame and then letting people kind of digest it and tease it apart at it. If they go back and watch it and consider everything that you say, you also post these amazing dance videos which I just think people need to get in on and
