Coming Back from Injury Over 40

What happens when the thing that keeps you grounded, confident, and connected to yourself suddenly gets taken away by injury over 40?

In this episode of the Fuel Your Strength Podcast, you’ll hear from strength coach, combat athlete, and student physical therapist Adam Duthie of Gray Beard Black Belt to unpack the messy middle between getting injured and getting back to the activities you love.

You’ll hear about the physical and psychological realities of rehab, chronic pain, strength training, and returning to sport in your 40s and beyond. From navigating fear around movement to understanding why “just rest it” often isn’t enough, this conversation is packed with practical insight for athletes over 40 who want to stay strong, resilient, and active for the long haul.

Want to finally know why your training isn’t working – and exactly what to fix? Take the Strength gap quiz.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Why injuries hit harder than just the physical pain
The problem with “just stop training” advice
What scans and imaging may not tell you
A different way to think about pain and recovery
Why some athletes stay stuck after injury
The overlooked role of strength training in resilience
What’s missing from a lot of rehab programs
How to stay connected to your sport while recovering

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Injury, Pain and Physical Therapy Over 40 with Dr. Leada Malek
Overtraining, Injury and Burnout with Dr. A’Naja Newsome
Mobility for Strength Training with Dr. Jen Hosler

Coming Back from Injury Over 40 – Episode Transcript

Steph Gaudreau 0:00
When you’re strength training, you’re doing your sport and living an active lifestyle. Unfortunately, injuries can still happen even though you’re taking steps to try to limit the likelihood how in the heck are you supposed to manage your return not only to the gym to lift weights, but also to the sport or activity that you love to do, while also keeping your mental state intact. That’s exactly what we’re going to explore today on this episode of fuel your strength with a very special guest. What’s going on? Welcome back to the podcast. Thanks for joining me today. Before we go any further. If you’re liking the show and getting value out of it, please hit subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. It really does help the show. Okay, today’s very special guest is Adam Duthie. Adam is better known as Graybeard, black belt on Instagram. He is an incredible strength and conditioning coach. He works mostly with older grapplers and combat athletes. He is one himself as a jiu jitsu athlete, and he is also a student physical therapist. So he is going through the process of becoming a physical therapist so he can work with athletes who are dealing with injuries, who are needing to rehab something and get back to the sport that they love. And on this show, we’re exploring all of that. If you’ve had an injury, how do you bridge the gap and get back from PT to the thing that you love doing? How do you take care of your mental emotional state, when your athleticism, being a hobbyist or even competing is really, really important to you, and suddenly you can’t do that thing anymore. That’s all stuff we’re going to be getting into on the show. And I think you’re really going to appreciate Adam’s perspective on this and the fresh take that he brings to blending these worlds together. With that being said, let’s go ahead and jump into the show. Hey Adam, welcome to the podcast.

Adam Duthie 1:45
Great to be here.

Steph Gaudreau 1:46
I’m excited to have you. I for listener context, I think I first saw you popping up in comments on Alex Sterner’s posts on social. He’s obviously the guy that writes my program. I looked at his gym, and, yeah, he brings some, some, like, really cool people into the comments, also just, you know, some complete crazy folks. But as I was, I was sort of watching your comments, and you’re part of the conversation. I was like, Adam’s kind of got a good head on his shoulders and knows a lot of shit. And so I was interested in having you on the show because you have a really special, I think, perspective and experience and expertise that is really going to be helpful to people listening to the show. So if you’re somebody who is dealing with an injury, you’re you had a surgery, you’re sort of like, I love being active, I love lifting, but I’m, I need to get back to the gym. How do I do it? And you’re feeling stuck in no man’s land, that’s what we’re going to talk about on this show today. So I’m excited that you’re with us.

Adam Duthie 2:56
Yeah, hell yeah. Excited to be here.

Making the Decision to Go Back to Physical Therapy School

Steph Gaudreau 2:58
Yeah. So you’re in an interesting position right now, because you’re sort of finishing up your clinical rotations and whatnot. For PT, can you tell me, sort of, how did you make this decision? What was going on in your mind that you’re like, Okay, I’m going to basically go back to school in my 40s and pursue this line of advanced education, like, what inspired you to make that sacrifice?

Adam Duthie 3:27
So I think, like, I don’t know. I don’t come to training via, like, the traditional route. I think a lot of people in our profession were like athletes growing up like that was not my story. I was into like, skateboarding and like smoking weed, like as a kid and like that was pretty much it. And it wasn’t until much later that I got into fitness and started a career in personal training for like, 20 years, and always wanted to be kind of like a one stop shop for people, but circumstances just made it untenable. I was working in gyms, as I’m sure you’re aware, starting at 6am not getting out till like nine o’clock at night, sometimes with like four hour gaps in between clients. And it was just like, you know, going back to school was just not really a possibility for me, and so when things changed in the world, I won’t say the C word, but when things changed in the world, a lot of these programs went hybrid, and it was able, it made it possible for me to go back to school at 44 years old. And so I have an undergrad in exercise science, which I also went I went back to school for that as well in my 40s, and I finished that up, took some prereqs and found a program that suited my lifestyle and and the rest is history. You know, I really just want to be able to help people who are struggling with. Contain, specifically, people in our community, in the jujitsu community, who are probably not going to stop training like no matter how bad their injury is. And so how do we keep these people healthy on the mats and not sending them out the door for fear of, you know, not being able to do this thing that they love so much, and just because I was in a spot where I couldn’t train for a little while, and it really put me in a bad headspace. So like, if I can help people avoid that, that would be really fulfilling to me. So that’s kind of like a broad, general overview of how I got

Steph Gaudreau 5:34
here. And I know that you are. You said you were in a an ortho your orthopedic, post rehab, just now, like, where do you think you’ll be focusing? Do you have an idea, or, you know, do you know where you want to specialize? Are you sort of going to be open to taking all sorts of folks?

Adam Duthie 5:55
So when I, when I started school, I made a conscious decision to be open to whatever. Like I was, like, I’m open to because there’s, like, for those who don’t know, there’s lots of different types of rehab. There’s like, geriatrics, pediatrics, cardio, poem, neuro, ortho, you know, and there’s like, all iterations of those. And I am 100% squarely in the sport camp. Like, nothing gets me more fired up than, like, working with an athlete like I had, I was in an outpatient ortho, but I had a ton of experience in this last place, and I had a handful of athletes. And nothing energized me more than working with these. I had a couple of baseball players, couple of skiers, couple of basketball players, all like young kids in high school, and it was just like, those are the funnest sessions, because I feel like I could really draw from my background coming from, like the fitness, strength and conditioning world, and start to apply that into the sport world. So So while I did keep an open mind heading into school with each cardiopulmon class and each neuro class, I would just like that door just closed, like I just do not want to. And there’s a special type of person who does that kind of work. I’m not knocking it, but it’s just not for me. Like I don’t, I don’t want to spend my days doing that, but I do want to work with with athletes and sports. So that’s that’s definitely where I’m headed.

Common Injuries in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Grapplers

Steph Gaudreau 7:12
That’s right, yeah, we were talking before the show, and I was saying my very first major in college was physical therapy. It was in a PT program. And part of our work in that program was we had to go out and do observations in outpatient, sort of just general PT setting. And I was like, This is not for me. And I wish somebody had taken me by the hand, because I’ve been an athlete my entire life and playing sports, and wish somebody had taken me by the hand and said, there is another thing for you out here. I probably would have stayed with it, but alas, here we are doing what we are doing today. I would love to talk more specifically about our group of folks. So I know you and I are very, very similar in age. A lot of the people who listen to the show are in their 40s and 50s, and at some point when you’re active, you do Jiu Jitsu. I do Jiu Jitsu, like we’ve done probably tons of different sports, at some point you arrive into the this threshold of your 40s, and you’re inevitably dealing with a lot of shit like life, life circumstances work. You’re you like to train, and then something’s going on with your body, whether it’s existing and it’s flared up or it’s kind of a new onset thing, what are some of the most common issues that you’re seeing with the folks that you work with, or you’ve just observed through your work, that people are kind of dealing with? Is it stuff that just pops up out of nowhere? Is it stuff that’s sort of chronic and it’s been going on and then something happens and kicks it off even further. Like, what are you seeing people struggling with the most in this, I guess, demographic of folks like you and me?

Adam Duthie 8:49
Yeah, I think in my experience, it’s been a combination of, like, trauma, where there’s, there’s no real mystery as to where the injury came from. It’s like you were training, you snap your shit up, and now you need to get your ACL repaired or or something to that effect. So that’s kind of like the easy bucket with a pretty straightforward path forward in terms of, like rehab and getting back to the mat. The more chronic stuff I’ve seen a lot of, like, low back and neck seem to be, like, pretty chronic things for people of our ilk, like people have been training a long time, who’ve been on the mats for a while and and that can be really debilitating, you know, because you can’t sleep well you and you can’t train anymore, and so You have this, like biological pressure, and this, like psychological pressure. And so many of us, for better or worse, kind of wrap up our identities in what we do, right? And something that we do a lot of in our community is we train a lot, both on and off the mats. And when you can’t do either of those things, you. Just leaves this, like, really big void in your life that can be pretty difficult to fill with with other stuff. And so when you are faced with the possibility of like, or at least the thought of not being able to get back to that, it can be pretty gnarly. And so and so, I think those are kind of like the big things like that, the immediate trauma, and then, like chronic injuries, like neck and back, that can be, you know, from a host of, like, with ridiculous symptoms, or just, like mobility deficits, but, but that, those are kind of like the big ones, I think in our population.

Steph Gaudreau 10:36
Yeah, and the listeners will know that I’ve talked about jiu jitsu quite a bit on this show, even though I don’t do that as part of my business, like, I’m not marketing myself specifically to jiu jitsu folks. I even wore my jiu jitsu sweatshirt for today. And when you’re talking about neck stuff and backs, and I’m just like, Don’t stack me, don’t guillotine me, you know, I’m just trying to avoid that stuff as much as possible. And it’s kind of, it’s a little bit easier to do when you can be more choosy with your training partners, or you just have more, you know, being a, being a black belt, comes with a little bit a little bit more, I don’t know, status, or your people are just like, Oh, okay. Like, if you don’t want to roll, that’s fine. You know, they’re a little bit more deferential. I feel like sometimes, and obviously that’s very different, I think, depending on where you train, what the culture is. But I feel like a lot of times people feel like they either feel the pressure to continue to train through something. They don’t know how to modify what they’re doing, or they’re just sort of like, I’m going to plow through this no matter what, and see how things go. So I don’t know if you have some thoughts on you know you are dealing, let’s say you are dealing with something that’s chronic. It keeps popping up when you’re feeling that like, Okay, I either need to plow through. I don’t have a lot of choice here, so I’m going to keep doing it. Or like you were mentioning, hey, this is gonna really fuck with my with my mind, if I can’t train the way I like to train, what is that decision making process that people could walk themselves through of like, okay, I know it’s either time to modify my training. I know I need to go see a professional, a PT, like, I can’t do this on my own. At what point do you feel like people would be better off, like, making that decision? Because sometimes you’re like, Oh, it’s just a little niggle, like I can get through. But you know, other times, not so much.

How Do You Know You Need Physical Therapy?

Adam Duthie 12:37
I think, like most of the aches and pains that we experience are going to probably resolve on their own right. And so, like, working around an injury, if you’re working with a trainer or a strength coach, like, you know, anybody worth their salt is going to help you kind of navigate that and work around it. And, you know, train the things that you can train aggressively, while kind of maybe putting some things on the shelf temporarily. But when we get to that chronic injury where it’s really debilitating and affecting other areas of your life, like sleep, work, time with your family, whatever leisure that might be, a time when you want to go see somebody who is a little bit more well versed in what you got going on. And I think you kind of hit the nail on the head with the word modify, right? Like, I like to really drive that home, like, the activity modification part, not activity removal part, right? Because a lot, unfortunately, a lot of people in the like, traditional physical therapy world will just try to, like, shut everything down and just tell you, like, Oh, you shouldn’t be doing that. Or, you know, you should stop lifting, or stop doing that sport, or stop doing XYZ, which I think is just such a shitty message to send to people, because, you know, when it doesn’t provide a path as to when that can be back on the menu or, or it just doesn’t demonstrate support for the activity, kind of just on a general, personal level. And so I think when you’re in terms of, like, what this, when to make that decision, it should really just be like, when does this? Is this affecting other areas of your life? And it’s like you’re unable to work around it, you know? And again, like this kind of like a broad question, because each thing is going to be done on a case by case basis, but, but I think, I think when it’s like affecting your ability to perform like activities of daily living, like that is, for sure, a clear sign you might need some more guidance.

What is the Meaning of Nocebo Effect?

Steph Gaudreau 14:31
Yeah, absolutely. Can you talk a little bit about the nocebo effect, and why this sort of like messaging of, you know, hey, we’re gonna just, it’s just gonna be so harmful. Is really not helpful. I think people are like, let’s be careful. Like, our brain wants to keep us safe. But at the same time, that idea of, like, the nocebo effect, like, can be really, really potent.

Adam Duthie 14:58
Yeah, I think first you have. Have to recognize and this goes for like strength coaches and trainers as well. It’s like you first have to recognize yourself, whether you feel this way or not, as an authority in the eyes of the person who’s coming to you, right, like that person made a series of decisions before they got to you. They first recognized that you were somebody with an answer. They scheduled an appointment they like rearrange their life to like be in front of you so like you’re, you’re you’re automatically this authority figure in their life, like it or not. And if you are planting seeds that you know, Jiu Jitsu or any sport, fill in the blank. Lifting weights is dangerous, then that is going to leave an indelible mark, you know, coming from this authority figure in that person’s psyche, which could carry on forever. I mean, I’m sure you, you’ve been doing this a long time, and I’m sure you’ve had people who just come to you like, oh, I have bad X or whatever it is, fill in the blank, and they just live the rest of their life thinking that they have this, you know, dysfunctional shoulder or dysfunctional knee or whatever, and they just avoid, like, just wholesale avoidance of certain movements, or just movement in general, and, and I think it’s just such a it’s a harmful and really just shitty way to practice your profession, like, whether it’s rehab or training or whatever,

Should You Rest When Injured?

Steph Gaudreau 16:25
yeah, definitely scaring people off of it’s weird, because we want people to be more active, right in general. Like, we look at the broad population and say, like, okay, most, most adults aren’t getting enough physical activity. Like, why are we trying to scare people away from movement when somebody, let’s say you got kind of a your knees, kind of barking at you, because that’s a pretty common one that I hear from my folks, and you’re like, Okay, so I talked to either either my my coach or trainer. I talked to a PT, and they told me to just, just completely rest the knee, just avoid using the knee, and it feels better. Like, why is that a kind of a vicious cycle? Or it becomes a bit of a trap? Can you explain that to people? Because I feel like they’re like, but it felt better when I rested, so I’m just going to keep resting, and then eventually they get back to it. And like, you know, things precipitate from there. But how does that actually work? So people can understand what’s going on there.

Adam Duthie 17:21
And again, it just comes back to, like, the whole load management, activity modification thing. You very well in certain scenarios, may need to just lighten up the input that’s going into that specific tissue. Like, like that is not an uncommon strategy in a well put together rehab or strength and conditioning program, however it’s it’s how you deliver that message. I think that’s really the crux of the problem. If you deliver that message in a way that’s like fear, that creates fear avoidance around using that knee like, like that that, I think, is the problem like choosing some movement that can be tolerated well into that tissue. I think is another is a better strategy, like you just find you regress the thing until the point of tolerance, and then you just hang out there for a little bit, and then you just use graded exposure to kind of help build that tissue resilience as you go. But I think it’s really like, how you deliver that message is the main thing. There’s all this like under the hood, psychological stuff that’s going on when people are having a pain experience. My last clinical instructor was really big on talking about when she discussed pain with people describing it as a pain experience, because we’re just having this experience of pain right now. It does not define you. It is not who you are. You’re going to get better. You’re resilient. Like it was really just a lot of this, like positive reinforcement and and gradually exposing, exposing certain tissues to load over time and getting them back to where they want to be. So I don’t know if that really answered the question, but I think so much of it has to just do with, like, how you deliver the message?

Steph Gaudreau 19:02
Yeah, for sure. And I see a lot of the folks that I work with in coaching, they’re like, Okay, well, I was told to just avoid, I don’t know, lunging, or avoid squatting, right, or avoid hinging. That’s when I hear a lot, right? I went to, I went to the PT, or heard from my other coach, I should just avoid hinging. And I’m like, okay, cool. So you’re not going to bend down and pick something up off the floor, like, how you’re not going to pick up your child, or, I don’t know, pick up a bag of cat food, or whatever it happens to be. And so I feel like you’re, you’re so spot on there, right? People live in fear of that movement in general. And then they go into the gym and they are like, Okay, I can’t do any of that. And then sometimes when they get back to it, it doesn’t take as much to sort of flare that issue again. Or, you know, it just kind of keeps them stuck in that cycle of, like, I have that bad back, I’ve got that bum knee. And ultimately, it’s just not very empowering, and it doesn’t. Feel good, to feel like I can, I can’t get out of this.

How Do You Get Over Your Fear of Injury?

Adam Duthie 20:04
It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. You know, it’s like, if you put this bad idea in somebody’s head and they just walk around their life like you said, like they can’t perform, they can’t pick up things from the ground, or whatever the issue is, and they’re guarding against movement all the time, like you’re probably going to hurt it again, because you just have this, like, hyper focus. On this negative outcome, you’re probably going to bring it to light. Like, I’ve seen that so many times, whereas if you tell people, like, I almost, like, shrug it off, they’re like, oh, I have a bad back. I’m like, now you’re fine. I’m like, Look, you can, you can do XYZ. And like, I almost kind of like, like, like, strategically will just kind of like, downplay a little bit. And all of a sudden they start to kind of downplay a little bit. I’m like, Oh, look, you’re savage. You know what I mean? Like, I just, like, drop in these little comments here and there, and before you know it, people are, you know, just doing things that they would not have thought possible, like, a month prior.

Steph Gaudreau 20:55
Yeah, I’ve seen that too, and it’s, I’m so glad you’re bringing up the psychological aspect of all of this, right? Because I think people are pretty familiar with the idea of biomechanically, there could be something wrong, you know? Could it? Could have strained part of the muscle tissue, could have an issue with a tendon or a ligament, like we know that these things can happen. And yet, the that psychological input is so powerful, and I think it’s one of the most misunderstood things when it comes to sort of like navigating that gray space, when you’re sort of like, I’m dealing with this thing and it’s kind of bugging me. And you’re right. I have seen that too, with so many folks who are like, See, I hurt my back again. See, you know, I have a bad back, or I have a fucked up knee, or they’ll get imaging for some reason, and they’re like, see, this is, this is what’s going on here. Can you talk a little bit about the challenge with imaging and getting things like maybe an MRI or whatnot, and like, how that could play into what’s going on psychologically?

Potential Downsides of Imaging

Adam Duthie 21:59
Yeah. I mean, like, it really boils down to symptomatic versus asymptomatic. If I took 30 people randomly on the street in San Diego or New York or whatever, and just, you know, blasted them with an X ray, right, I would probably see 30 examples of some type of pathology. I would see maybe some disc rupture. I’d maybe see some label tear. I mean, you’re not going to pick up a label tear on X ray, but like imaging in general, you and you’re going to see something in somebody like, there’s no question you might see that in a child, like somebody who has not yet been exposed to, you know, the rigors of the world, like you might see some imaging pathologies, and if that person is walking around pain free, then what does it matter? You know, like, imaging is not the end all be all. And people get so hyper fixated on that, like, should I get an x ray? Should I get an MRI? And I’m like, How do you feel? They’re like, I feel fine. I’m like, then don’t worry about it. Like, who cares? There are times and places where imaging is appropriate too. Like, I think people kind of go a little too far on the non imaging side of things. I think, like, I kind of try and live in the middle. Imaging can help clarify sometimes on what’s what’s going on, but generally speaking, from a therapy standpoint, it’s not really going to change what we do. And that’s kind of the thing it’s like. So am I going to go, have you spend time, money, potential radiation exposure, all just to get back to the same exact place we were going to start anyway, like, if you’re planning on treating something conservatively, then imaging is probably not required. If you’re planning on treating something surgically, then sure imaging is definitely required. But again, that’s like, outside my scope. So, like, it really boils down to, like, what are you looking to get out of this, and what are you planning on doing? My philosophy, of course, is go conservative until you are left with no other choice?

Steph Gaudreau 24:02
Yeah, definitely, that’s the tough part. I think about a lot of this is, I mean, this existed far, far before social media became what it is today. But there is a lot of extremely poor messages, and you just mentioned it sort of right. There’s either the like we need to image every single ache and pain versus, you know, don’t worry about it ever. And like you said, you live in the middle. I think most of us kind of live in the middle who understand that these issues can be complex. I mean, it seems like it’s harder and harder these days to kind of carve out a sensible message or get that across to folks because of just even things like how the algorithm works? So, yeah, I don’t think you’re alone in that at all, and I feel like that’s a huge challenge these days in communication, there’s a lot of nuance that’s just lost. You know, we’re all trying to vie for, like, people’s attention.

Adam Duthie 25:00
I do it too. Like, we’re all just trying to, you know, grab eyeballs on social media. And so sometimes, like, the only way to do that is to just be like that, like, you know, and that comes at the cost of nuance. And so I try to like, like, I have a little whiteboard behind me here, and I have written on it, you know, who does this serve? Does it lack context? Is this helpful? You know, and like, with like, those are questions that I asked myself, and I try to do that when I when I post, because I want, like, the nuance to come through. Like, the answer is, always, it depends, but it depends doesn’t always help people. So you have to, kind of, like, figure out how to deliver this message, and it really like, as you well know, a good coach is going to ask you back 40 questions before they even begin to formulate an opinion on on your specific case.

Can You Lift Weights After Physical Therapy?

Steph Gaudreau 25:54
Yeah, absolutely. Think people are like, can you just, can you just tell me? And I’m like, I need to gather more information first. Let’s say some what happens a lot with a lot of my lifters. Like, at some point, you know, if we have something that’s going on with them, a lot of times it’s pre existing, and they’re just sort of haven’t dealt with it for different reasons. You know, we were trying to work around it, modify things in the gym, and something is still going on. And so sometimes they’ll go off to also concurrently do PT, or they’ll do PT, and then come back. A lot of times they finish their PT and they’re like, help. I feel like I’m in no man’s land. I wasn’t given any guidance on resuming activity, what I can do, what I should avoid or modify for now, can you give us some insight? First of all, why? Why is that happening for folks, they’ll kind of get to the end of what their insurance will cover, for example, and they’re like, left they feel like they’re left with nothing. Is that still kind of the old school way of doing things? Is that just depend on the practitioner in your experience, like, Why? Why get to the end and feel like there’s no next steps?

Adam Duthie 27:07
Yeah, and I think it’s a bit of all the above. You know, there is a lot of traditional PT, and I say traditional kind of, like, in the in the sense where it’s just like, churn and burn, just like it’s a mill. You come in there and they get throw a hot pack on you. They, you know, maybe give you some E stem, they put you on like a wobble board. You do some theraband exercises. And it’s like, All right, get the hell out of here. And the next person comes in, they just do the same exact thing. And that really all comes down to, like, the insurance model, right? Like, Pts get so burned out because you are doing you know, you’re seeing whatever like two three patients an hour, you have to do your notes so you’re not even watching the person who’s in front of you, and you’re trying to bang out your notes as quickly as possible, so that you don’t spend three hours after work doing it all so that you can maybe get reimbursed 60 days later from an insurance company. And so I really think the reason people have such a negative experience with PT is that model, right?

Because at the end of the day, like the patient is losing the therapist is losing, the insurance companies are really kind of calling all the shots, and so I think the model has to change now. I think the positive thing with social media is that a lot of people, a lot of consumers out there, can see very clearly, if they search PT on social media, that what’s possible. So the place that I just came from was was really fantastic, because it was a privately owned husband, wife team. He runs like the the gym side. She runs the physical therapy side. Katrina and Larry Lee of Lee PT and wellness in Cairo, New York, fantastic people and and they have a post PT program where, like, you come in for therapy. You do your therapy once you are considered, like, once you’ve met all your therapy benchmarks, they try and push you right over to the gym to get you lifting, and so that you never come back to pt, you know? And so, like, that’s, that’s a model that I think is fantastic, and it’s just not what is commonly seen in traditional PT land.

So, and the other thing too, Steph is like PT school, the exercise, like so much of what we do is exercise based, and the exercise design and prescription and PT school is like the most basic stuff you’ve ever seen in your entire life. And it never moves past that, like, I had two courses, not even courses, like two modules of two courses dealing with, like exercise prescription and progression, and they were like, you know me, and like, there’s another guy from your neck of the woods actually, who’s like a o lifting coach. And we would just kind of look at each other from across the room, and they were talking. About exercise selection. It just like, shake our head, like, because it was just like, and so many, so many of these people don’t lift and they don’t train, and so it’s like, that’s why, you know, it’s like, they don’t, they don’t know any better. Sometimes, like, they don’t, they don’t, they don’t even live that lifestyle. So they can’t really help you with it, you know, they can’t help you get back to it, because they don’t even know what it

Steph Gaudreau 30:19
is. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s fair. And I think how, the, how the these programs and stuff are run, like, are they continually updated? Like, where are the gaps there and then? Like, what does, what’s kind of on the person to sort of fill through extra certification or just experience, like, you have a wealth of knowledge from being a trainer for years and years coming in, if you’re some if, let’s say you’re a person who is a hobbyist athlete, like you’ve gone through some, PT, you feel like you’re getting spit out the other side. You’re about to have your last appointment, and you’re like, like, I’m kind of being like, released back into the wild. What are some things that you think people could ask, like, you know, advocating for themselves, being really proactive. They had to walk in there with a list of questions in the notes on their phone to sort of get some nuggets, if it’s not being offered to them. They could at least try, from their their PT, or from the rehab like, about to go back out into the world, either on their own or working with a coach, like, what what do you think are the more effective questions they could ask?

Returning to Sports After Injury

Adam Duthie 31:24
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I think first and foremost, ask your therapist, you know what their return to sport plan is, right? And that’s going to vary depending on the sport, but there’s lots of like pre packaged return to play programs out there that a physical therapist can look into and begin to implement. There’s all types of assessments you have, like, you know, something called the Y balance test. You have triple hop, single leg, triple hop, single leg, hop, you know, just like, very dynamic stuff. Again, I think those might be more appropriate for, like, field and track sports. This is where I think, like, having somebody who actually understands what you’re trying to get back to can really be beneficial. And so, you know, most therapists who don’t train combat sports might, I think, I think for like, striking combat sports, I think a lot of the traditional like return to play stuff is probably appropriate, because you’re on your feet, you’re bouncing around a little bit, but there’s a huge upper body component that I think is lacking in a lot of these return to play programs. And so I think you know coming up with your own standards and benchmarks on the fly as somebody who understands that could really be beneficial, and you might not have that luxury of having a therapist who is also a combat sport person, but like, ask them what their return to play plan is, and then, like, keep on them. Like, throughout the process, like, how you know, if you’re doing some exercise where they put you on a wobble board, set a clock for three minutes and then walk away from you, ask them, like, how is this going to help me get back to Jiu Jitsu? Or how is this going to help me get back to running and like, it’s okay, you know, in a like not being aggressive with them, but it’s okay to ask those questions. I don’t feel like you’re bothering them. That’s that’s literally their job to help educate you. So, so ask those questions. Advocate for yourself. Because, you know, unfortunately, it might not happen otherwise.

Steph Gaudreau 33:23
Yeah, definitely. And it, I would say, on a positive note, I have had a lot of people who are like, Yeah, I I asked my PT, and they gave me some ideas, or we’ve been talking about it the whole time. I, you know, show them a video of me doing what I do, or, like, what I’m trying to get back to, like, that’s the level of proficiency that I have in my sport, my activity. So I feel like people are like, the conversations are happening more and more, but we still get, I still get people who come out the other side and they’re like, I don’t know, like, I wasn’t given any guidance. So I hope that helps in terms of them being proactive too. I think that’s an important piece. But let’s say we have somebody listening to the show. I don’t think there’s that many out there at this point, but let’s say we’ve got folks listening to the show who are like, I haven’t started strength training yet. Maybe I’m a jiu jitsu athlete, or I’m a run early guy. I want to run. I don’t have time to lift weights. I mean, I feel like you’re in a really unique position. You straddle these three worlds now, of like the training side, the athlete side and the therapist side. Give me your elevator pitch for why doing some strength training is a is a smart investment of time and effort for these folks.

Should Athletes Lift Weights?

Adam Duthie 34:44
Yeah, so I’ll give you my kind of pat answer is like, when force exceeds tissue tolerance, injuries occur. Like that is the math of of injury, right? So you i. Have sustained some forces your tissues could not tolerate that you got your shit snapped up, whether it was running Jiu Jitsu, whatever, strength training is the most reproducible way to build resilience into tissues in a controlled environment so that you can help and again, you’re not going to eliminate the risk of injury. Like doing, doing physical activity, you know, from pickleball to bare knuckle boxing, like you’re going to get hurt. Like there’s no fucking question. People ask me, oh, well, I get hurt. If I start jujitsu, I say absolutely. Like, you get hurt. There’s not, it’s not even a question. You will definitely get hurt at some point in time. That’s okay. You know, the the frequency and the severity of those injuries will largely be determined on what you do off the mats, right? Like knock on wood, I’ve not suffered any debilitating injuries that took me off the mats longer than two weeks at a time, or had injuries that I couldn’t simply just work around with the right training partner, going back to what we were talking about earlier. And so, you know, strength training is the most reproducible way to do that period, full stop, end of discussion, and heavy strength training, by the way, you know, not just, like, functional patterns, bullshit, torn around with the cable, you know, like, with with poor loading potential, like, you need to, like, get under some heavy loads. And again, heavy is a relative term. Like, don’t let that term scare you, heavy just relative to what, to where you’re at today. And you do that today, you’re going to be able to do a little bit more tomorrow. And that’s just the way this thing works. You got to pay works. You got to pay to play, you know, like, There’s no way around it, like you have to pay to play,

Steph Gaudreau 36:47
yeah, but Adam, I could, I could get hurt. Like, I’m afraid of lifting, like I could get hurt. Like, my, you know, my cousin’s boyfriend, like, blew up his His disc in his back. You know my mailman, he like, hurt his knee. I just, you know, it’s just safer for me to keep doing what I’m doing without adding that in.

Benefits of Strength Training for Athletes

Adam Duthie 37:14
You got to go train with Steph and get some, get some guidance. But no, seriously, it’s just load management, right? Like, like your mailman or your cousin’s boyfriend’s sister’s cat just probably did too much too soon, right? Because, once again, coming right back to that initial statement I just made, when force exceeds tolerance, injuries occur, right? And so you have to build through, build this into your tissue through graded exposure over time, for many, many years, ideally, a lifetime. People, I love when people come to me like, how long is it gonna take for x, and I’m like, I don’t fuck it five years. Like, I don’t fucking know, like, it takes a long time for this stuff. Like, like, there’s no you know, that’s the wrong question. You know, the right question is, how do I do this? Not, not, like, how long? Or, why should I do this? You know, it’s like, how do I do this? Like, that’s the right question. When people come to me with that, I’m like, Okay, this person’s invested, and so it’s great at exposure over time, beginning where you are and building that out over time, right? There’s no shortcuts, there’s no free lunch. Like, you kind of have to do this shit and and that’s really all there is to it.

Steph Gaudreau 38:26
Yeah, I think the toughest part for me right now is having the conversations with folks where it’s like to the point I made earlier, right there’s a huge subset of people in this country, the world, who aren’t physically active at all, and so sure, like, probably them doing something is going to anything is going to give them a benefit, right? But that’s typically not who you and I are talking to, right? We’re talking about the people who have been in jiu jitsu for like, five to 10 years, or have been running for a while, or they’re, like, really amped up on the idea of doing their first half marathon. They’ve been running for some time pickleball, the pickleballers, man, yeah, you need to, you need to take care of your shit. But I feel like there’s this, this subset of folks who are sort of like dabbling. You mentioned Functional Patterns, yeah, like all of that stuff, where they’re like, I do like, a couple of these peloton strength workouts, and it’s like 400 reps worth of what amounts to a cardio circuit. And sometimes having those conversations are really difficult, where it’s like, well, I am lifting some weights, okay, but is it effective, right? And so, like, how do you have those conversations with folks, where they’re like, Yeah, I do this. Like, random workout once every couple weeks. Like, how do you help folks sort of get narrowed in on something that is more consistent and, like, effective for what they’re trying to do?

Adam Duthie 39:49
I mean, I would just flip it back on them and just say, Well, you know, let’s say Jiu Jitsu. Like, would you be able to progress in jiu jitsu if you did it once every. Two months or something, you know, I mean, like, if I want to have a cup of tea, I have to put the kettle on the stove and keep the flame on. Like, I can’t just come over and turn the stove off, turn it on, then turn it off, and then walk away, and then turn it on and turn it off again, and then walk away. Like, like, that flame has to boil that water and it has to be on consistently in order to get the desired effect. And it’s the same thing with strength training. It’s the same thing with skill development. It’s the same thing with with anything really consistency is key. The most important metric that we track is attendance. You know, just like being there, even if it was a shitty session, like I was in the building, I did something and it it is far superior than doing nothing at all. And again, like you can always do something, I think a lot of times, especially people of our age, like they got families, they got jobs, they got responsibilities, they got aches and pains, they got all this, you know, stuff, whatever it’s like. I have a 25 pound dumbbell, a 24 kilo kettlebell and a 10 kilo kettle under my desk right now, I will just get up sometimes and bang out, like Max rep squats, or just do some like ISO holds, or just do something throughout the day, so I get some type of physical activity. And so it really just like comes down to structuring your environment with with the right things that you can you can live the life that you want to live. Because I think most people want to do this. It’s not, it’s not like a, you know, I can’t do that, or I don’t want to do I think most people like, generally understand that being physically active and strong is a positive thing. They just don’t know, like, how to really do it, or they have old ideas of what, what, what it actually represent, what it is, and how to do it.

Steph Gaudreau 41:45
Most, most underrated, like, modality, of what we would call like, I guess, like strength, strength training, strength conditioning, like, what is one of the most underrated, I guess, pieces of programming that you see people not utilizing in the gym.

Adam Duthie 42:01
So lately I’ve been on like, a little bit of an isometric kick, I think, like, I’ve been doing a little bit of research on, not research. I mean, I’ve been reading research about isometrics and and I think in terms of, like, time investment, like, you don’t really need a lot of it, like, it’s super uncomfortable and it sucks. And I think for that reason, you don’t really see a lot of it, and so that’s probably why it’s underrated, just because it’s, like, so uncomfortable. But I think, I think ISOs are, like, super impactful on just range of motion, strength maintenance, like, if you are, maybe you’re prepping for a comp and you don’t want to get too gassed out because your train, your sport training frequency, is way up. You just can’t really tolerate the loads that you used to. You know, doing a couple of well timed ISOs is a really great way to keep your strength maintained at really low volumes without getting too much muscle fatigue. So I think, I think ISOs are kind of like, I’ll be posting more about that in the near future here, but I’ve been digging it

Recovering Mentally from a Sports Injury

Steph Gaudreau 43:05
sweet. I guess one last question I have is we’ve mentioned a few times in this conversation the sort of mental, psychological aspect of you know you got hurt now, what from a either a coach or a PT perspective, we’ve talked about what’s not helpful, right? That nocebo, like scaring people into, into, I don’t know, like never doing their activity again. Let’s kind of, I guess, end it on the flip side. Like, how would you talk somebody through that element. Like, what would you want them to know about taking care of that part of their their soul, that that psychological part, like the the fears that they might have, that sense sends them off knowing that they fucking got this.

Adam Duthie 43:56
Yeah, so I think so much of it is now putting, like, my like, Sport Coach had on, be in the fucking room. Like, okay, your shit is hurt. You can’t train today. Fine. Be in the fucking room. Can you get in your car and drive to the fucking training place and be at the place that you would have been anyway if you weren’t hurt? Like, keep that schedule going. Be in your community. Be on the mat. At least you’re learning something, you’re watching people, you’re still in your community, you still have that, the social aspect of it going on. You have the support of your teammates. I think that is like such an going back to underrated. I think that is like such an underrated piece of advice that I tell my guys and gals all the time, I go be in the fuck okay. I don’t give a shit. You can’t train be in the fucking room. I think that’s so important. And I think that alone is going to create a lot of buy in for and maybe if you’re not, if you’re not a combat sport athlete, you don’t have that type of thing, fine, like, still try to participate in your community, whatever that is, like, you know, via on the phone or text or whatever, just kind of still be in your. Community. So I think that’s huge, because that’s going to be incredibly motivating for you to do what’s necessary to get back to the things you want to do when you’re just out there in the ether by yourself in a silo while having a pain experience. It’s like super isolating. And as we know, isolation and fear avoidance and catastrophizing is really just gonna like 10x your pain experience. So I think really kind of keeping your schedule and your environment as close as you possibly can to the pre injury kind of environment is like the best thing you can do.

Steph Gaudreau 45:40
Yeah, golden advice, right there. Awesome. Well, tell folks where they can learn more about you, connect with you. You know, any place you want to point people to learn more about what you’re up to.

Adam Duthie 45:55
Instagram is probably the best. I’ve been trying to do more YouTube stuff, but with school, it’s just kicking my ass. I haven’t put that in the back burner for a little while, but it’s little while, but Instagram is the best at Graybeard black belt. And yeah, happy to connect people on there. And I respond to everybody. I respond to every question. So don’t feel like you have to hesitate to reach out.

Steph Gaudreau 46:17
Awesome. We’ll link all of that in the show notes. It’s been great to have you. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.

Adam Duthie 46:22
Yeah, great to be here.

Steph Gaudreau 46:23
Yeah. All right, that does it for this episode of fuel your strength with my wonderful guest, Adam Duthie, better known as Gray Beard Black Belt over on Instagram and YouTube. I’m gonna go and link up all of that in the show notes. So if you want to catch up with Adam and what he’s up to and learn more and learn from him, then you can definitely do that. He’s got a lot of great content that he’s putting out. So go check out those links. You will find them on the website, and so I’ll make sure they’re in our show notes. Now, by the time this recording goes out, we have launched a brand new version of my website, which I’m really, really excited about is a long time in the making. I’ve had a website officially since, I don’t know, 2009 but we’ve gone through lots of iterations over the years. And I’m really thankful to Jess Freeman at Jess Creatives for building me a wonderful new website. And I would love it. I’d be thrilled if you would go check that out. StephGaudreau.com, of course, and also check out this podcast on the podcast page. It would also be incredible if you would hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast streaming platform, that way new people can find the show. And of course, it’s a free way for you to show support. And I am very, very grateful and thankful for that. All right, that does it for this episode of the fuel your strength podcast, you know what comes next as always, until next time, stay strong.