It can be tricky to strike a balance between when our bodies are optimized to go hard and when we need to rest. This is why wearable trackers like my personal favorite, Whoop, are such amazing tools to help you understand the data and analytics behind your performance and recovery.
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Key Takeaways
If You Want to Use A Recovery Tracker to Improve Your Recovery, You Should:
- Find a tracker that provides you with science-based data and analytics unique to your body
- Don’t forget about your menstrual cycle and the impact it can have on your training and recovery
- Remember that it is necessary to rest in order to see the gains that you want
Making Data-Driven Decisions with Emily Capodilupo
Emily Capodilupo is the Senior Vice President of Data Science & Research at Whoop. A Harvard-educated neurobiology expert, former gymnast, and current runner, Emily knows firsthand the importance of sleep and recovery when it comes to peak performance. She combines her skills, personal experience, and sleep and analytics knowledge to empower athletes to make intelligent, data-driven decisions about their bodies.
Recovery Is Non-Negotiable
By now, we all know that rest is an important factor in recovery, but did you know it can also impact your athletic, cognitive, and emotional performance?
The average person sleeps for ⅓ of their life, and yet the reason behind why sleep is a universal need is still yet to be fully understood.
As Emily says, sometimes the best thing you can do for your body is rest.
There is no point in training hard if you are not going to see the benefits, and you will not see the results you are hoping for without giving your body time to rest.
By using a tracker like Whoop, you can better understand what is going on with your body and how to improve your metrics in order to meet your fitness goals.
Closing the Research Gender Gap
Another area that Emily is passionate about bringing attention to is the lack of female representation in academic research, especially when it comes to exercise physiology research. Historically women have been excluded from research studies, which does a horrible disservice to the females who want to train the right way.
Whoop works to provide you with information about your recovery and sleep, and menstrual cycle so that you can work smarter, not harder. By understanding your menstrual cycle and how your body is operating, you can actually get fit more efficiently.
Using technology to gain more information about ourselves, and learning how to apply this information in simple and straightforward ways, is truly the optimal way to perform in all of your athletic pursuits.
Are you ready to use science-backed guidance to improve your performance and recovery? Share your thoughts on data and science when it comes to your optimal health with me in the comments below.
In This Episode
- How data collection and algorithms work hand in hand with human physiology (7:58)
- What is taken into consideration when creating a recovery score with Whoop (17:25)
- Why it is important to close the gender gap when it comes to exercise physiology research (29:22)
- What Whoops current and future research tells us about our menstrual cycles (38:43)
- How to adjust your training based on where you are at in your cycle, stage of life, and more (45:52)
Quotes
“It is a pretty powerful metric of how ready your body is to adapt to the varying stimuli you may be exposed to that day.” (19:21)
“The recovery score, because we are getting at these pretty basic physiological measurements of readiness and adaptation, it translates into all these different things. So both your ability to perform, as well as your risk of potentially getting injured.” (24:32)
“By neglecting research into how to comfortably and safely exercise as a person with a uterus, with these ovarian hormones, we are kind of setting these people up to opt out and therefore reduce their health later in life, shorten their lifespan, make them feel less good and less health, and I feel like that is a really big problem.” (36:54)
“We have collected data from thousands of perimenopausal and menopausal females, and we are going to be able to do research… to sort of understand what research in that population looks like in a way that academic research failed to comment on. We are excited to be a part of closing that gap.” (51:08)
“When we make stuff up, we are at such a high risk of getting it wrong and doing this huge disservice to a population who wants to do it right.” (53:37)
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Recovery Trackers, Training and the Menstrual Cycle w/ Emily Capodilupo
Steph Gaudreau
Do you struggle to take a rest day even when you’re feeling kind of crispy around the edges? If so you are not alone. Women in our 40s and beyond really need to start thinking about how to optimize our performance, when to go hard and when to back off. And it’s really tricky to strike that balance. Today’s special guest on the podcast today is giving us a peek behind the curtain into the world of data and analytics for performance and recovery. And we are diving into a very important topic, which covers the gender gap. In research specific to sports and performance. I know you’re going to love this episode.
Steph Gaudreau
If you’re an athletic 40, something woman who loves lifting weights, challenging yourself, and doing hardship, the Fuel Your Strength podcast is for you. You’ll learn how to eat, train, and recover smarter, so you build strength and muscle, have more energy, and perform better in and out of the gym. I’m strength nutrition strategist and weightlifting coach Steph Gaudreau. The Fuel Your Strength podcast dives into evidence-based strategies for nutrition training and recovery. And why once you’re approaching your 40s and beyond, you need to do things a little differently than you did in your 20s. We’re here to challenge the limiting industry narratives about what women can and should do in training and beyond. If that sounds good, hit subscribe on your favorite podcast app. And let’s go!
Steph Gaudreau
Welcome back to the Fuel Your Strength Podcast. I’m so excited to have you here today because my special guest is going to be digging into all things, data and science, and women in sports and performance. And it just ticks all the boxes of all the things that I love to talk about. So when my very special guest, Emily Capodilupo of Whoop, agreed to be on this show, I admit I was fangirling just a little bit because Emily is very smart. And she is really pushing for us to better understand women and how we perform in our lifting in all of our athletic pursuits. And we’re going to be getting into that in this podcast today. She is the Senior Vice President of data analytics at Whoop. Now Whoop is a wearable technology, it could be called fit tech or a recovery tracker. I’ve been using Whoop now for over a year. And I’m so impressed with how it’s really helped me understand my body a little bit better to pull back the reins on the days where you know what, I’m just not quite as recovered as I thought I might be. And I know that even if you don’t have Whoop, you’re going to find that this podcast is incredibly insightful. And if you’d like to check out Whoop and get a free month, you can use my link just go to join.whoop.com/stephg.
Steph Gaudreau
Now before we head into this episode, I really want to get your attention if you’re someone who loves to do all the things I see you out there, you’re not just lifting, you’re doing lifting and you’re doing your Peloton and you are hiking on the weekends or getting out and doing active things. You like yoga you like all the things if you are someone who is multi-passionate like that, then this message is definitely for you. I see so many of my Strength Nutrition Unlocked students coming in with this passion for being active. And I love that I fully support it. And I also have to say that those are the students who really benefit the most from a smarter approach to fueling and when they do they start to notice wow, I am excelling in all of these different areas and I’m feeling so much better I have so much more energy I’m seeing muscle come onto my body for the first time in a long time. I am increasing my strength numbers and hitting PRs and I’m just overall feeling so much better. If this sounds like you and you want to get more information about Strength Nutrition Unlocked then I want you to head to StephGaudreau.com/strong there you can click the link to apply and I would love to share more with you about this program because it’s definitely made for you. Alright, let’s go ahead and jump into this podcast episode with oops own Emily Capodilupo.
Steph Gaudreau
Hello, Emily, welcome to the podcast.
Emily Capodilupo
Thanks so much for having me.
Steph Gaudreau
Alright, I’m gonna tell the listeners that before we started recording, we all kind of jumped on Zoom and I’m going to try not to fangirl because I’m a huge admirer of you and what you’re doing not just as a woman in science, but at whoop and everything that you’re really spearheading at the company. And so I’m just thrilled that you’re here today to share more about what you’re doing, what the need is, and why this stuff is so important. And, of course, some of the interesting things that y’all are finding in your research app, Whoops. So thank you so much for being here.
Emily Capodilupo
Yeah. Thank you excited to get into it with you.
Steph Gaudreau
Yeah. So can you tell us first of all, like, what is your official kind of job title at Whoop? And maybe for those listeners who don’t know what Whoop is? They don’t have one? They haven’t heard me talk about it. What is Whoop in general?
Emily Capodilupo
Sure. So I’m the Senior Vice President of data science and research at Whoop, we’re a wearable tech company. You know, a lot of people say like a Fitbit, or like an Apple Watch. But we tend to think of ourselves as more focused on sleep and recovery. You know, in a little bit smaller form factor more just a great product. You’re meant to be worn 24/7. So as far as what I do, my role primarily has two aspects to it. So on the data science side, we’re creating the algorithms that kind of fuel your feedback. So returning all of the vital sign data, that our product is continuously collecting 24 hours a day, into stuff that makes sense. So finding, you know, using your metric data in order to figure out, okay, this is where you were sleeping, give you feedback about the sleep coach you to sleeping better, and as well as sort of the same thing around exercise and around recovery, in order to help you understand what’s going on with your body.
Emily Capodilupo
And you know, how to improve those various metrics in order to reach your goals. And then, you know, the other side of the role is research. And so really looking at, you know, what are the features that we want to be creating for people that the science that exists today can’t support. And so really looking at where, you know, where there’s opportunities to contribute to the larger body of academic research, in order to enable new and exciting features and better understand human physiology?
Steph Gaudreau
I love that. So, tell me, we’re gonna get into some more about that in a bit. But kind of, tell us, you know, I know a little bit about your background, but how did you get into this idea of the data science or the data collection? The algorithms with physiology, what was your start in science? Did you grow up always being kind of a science nerd? I mean, we’re like science nerds unite. In my community, it’s a very common thread. But did you grow up loving that or having an interest in that? And sort of where did you get started in your own background with academia?
Emily Capodilupo
Yeah, so when I was growing up, I really thought that I wanted to be a doctor. I also really liked math, but I didn’t know anything you did with math, other than being an accountant, which didn’t seem exciting to me. No shade, but it wasn’t for me. And so I really thought that I wanted to be a doctor I loved you know, biology, and you know, all that kind of stuff. And so when I was 16 years old, I became a volunteer Emergency Medical Technician in my hometown, and so I was working on an ambulance going in all these emergency calls. And I really didn’t like it. And it was very confusing for me, because I was like, I’m supposed to like this. And I loved EMT school. They love, love, love the training and everything. And I just didn’t, didn’t like actually doing it. And I sort of convinced myself that it’s just because, you know, I was 16 years old, and I was working with these 40-year-old dudes, and like, maybe they weren’t really my people.
Emily Capodilupo
And I stuck with it and you know, spent, you know, 1000s and 1000s of hours on an ambulance, and just like, never really hit my groove with it, and actually started teaching EMT classes in order to get out of having to go on the ambulance. And I loved teaching it because I find human physiology so, so interesting. But it just, you know, 16-17, even like 21 year old me, really had no idea what you did with liking human physiology that wasn’t being a doctor, sort of, in retrospect, it’s like to go into research or teach or whatever, but like, I just couldn’t really quite figure that out. And so I just kept kind of going forward with this plan of being a doctor. And, you know, one of the things that everybody recommends, if you’re, you know, a sort of, you know, an ambitious pre-med student is to work in a lab. And so, I joined the division of Sleep Medicine at Harvard, Harvard’s Brigham Women’s Hospital, which is like a clinical sleep lab that uses a lot of data science techniques in order to analyze the data. And I like to literally fell in love with the research I was doing. And I was like, I’m such a good pre-med student, this is gonna look great on my med school application. And like, I was just telling everyone like, I’m like loving this lab, and I’m like doing this to get into med school.
Emily Capodilupo
And then it like clicked, I think it was like three years into working in this lab. And I was like, I actually am allowed to keep doing this, like, this doesn’t just have to be a stepping stone to med school. And like, meanwhile, I was still volunteering as an EMT, and like, still hating it. But like kind of loving it this weird academic way at the same time, and I was just like, you know, what I’m gonna, I’m gonna do this, and not that. And so kind of like pivoted away from med school, but sort of the nice sort of convenient thing was, you know, in this effort to become this, like, really strong med school candidate, I was actually making myself like a very good researcher, and then just kind of, you know, decided that that was for me, and you’ve gotten lucky that I worked in this absolutely incredible lab, you know, that happens to be run by some of the biggest names in academic sleep research. And so really, you know, just had like a really, really strong foundation there.
Emily Capodilupo
And then senior years thinking about going and like getting a Ph.D. in sleep research and trying to figure out what that career would look like. But then I met with Ahmed, who’s the founder and CEO of Whoop, and he was like, oh, we need a sleep person. Come work with me. And so I was like, you know, what, like, I haven’t applied to Ph.D. programs yet, because I sort of just pivoted away from medical school, I’ll go do this Whoop thing for a year, and then, and then go to grad school. And, you know, nine years later, I’m still at Whoop.
Emily Capodilupo
But you know, absolutely love it. And, you know, very much got into data science in the most backward and roundabout way you possibly can. But I’ve just, you know, loved every minute of the journey, and, you know, really found a place that suits my skills, and you know, very much in line with what I’m passionate about, and just been able to do really, really incredible research in this setting. And so, you know, I have no plans of going anywhere. So yeah, the very backward way of how I ended up here,
Steph Gaudreau
I love it. It’s a very superhero origin story, you know, and very personal to you. And I think that that’s really cool. I also have some experience and went to school for human physiology biology, and was like, What do I do with this, and I was, you know, I can hear a lot of my myself in your story. I was not on an ambulance at 16, which I think is pretty amazing. But yeah, you sometimes go through those traditional, I guess, more traditional tracks, and you’re like, what if I don’t want to do this, and so I love that you sort of continued to sort of get curious and follow what felt right to you. And I think that that’s, that’s something that I don’t know, maybe we don’t often think Is is possible, if we have to go with these preordained tracks, research or medicine or you know, those sorts of things. So that’s really, really cool. What was it about sleep that really intrigued you so much?
Emily Capodilupo
You know, it’s like, it sounds goofy. But as you know, as a sleep-deprived college student, it was just sort of like, you know, this fascinating thing of like, why do we spend a third of our lives sleeping? And just like, remember being really curious about it. I was majoring in neurobiology, so kind of like in, you know, there’s like a little bit of sleep education just as part of that. And I remember just like trying to understand sleep, and I Googled it, like, why do we sleep? What’s the point of this, and the consensus at the time when she actually saw the consensus, is that there is no consensus as to what sleep is about, like, all of the best sleep researchers disagree, all we know is that after about, like, 11 days, if you don’t sleep, you die. So we know, it’s pretty important. And we know that we get very sleepy and you know, start to like, fall apart, right, we make more accidents. And, you know, we find it hard to concentrate. And like all those things, obviously, you know, everybody listening knows what being sleepy feels like, but sort of why it is that this, you know, the pretty ridiculous state has evolved.
Emily Capodilupo
Nobody really knows, when we sleep, it’s pretty vulnerable. So there’s a lot of evolutionary pressure to not have to sleep, you know, if a species could figure out how to get rid of that, they would probably do very, very well. So the fact that it’s persisted, and it’s completely universal, I mean, even plants sleep, you know, they don’t synthesize at night, and they don’t grow as much like they have that kind of dormant state. There must be something so so critical about it, and we don’t know, and it shouldn’t, we’re thinking that that was so cool. And there’s just nothing else that we spend anything close to a third of our lives doing without knowing why. You know, just because it feels good.
Emily Capodilupo
And I just thought that yeah, I don’t know. I thought that was super cool. And so I googled sleep research at Harvard because Harvard, as an undergrad at the time. And you know, then I discovered that Harvard kind of invented the field of Sleep Medicine with the guy who’s, like, considered the father of Chronobiology, did like found the field at Harvard. And I just kind of thought it was this cool opportunity to go and, you know, learn from the best of the best and ended up joining in part of his lab. And, you know, just, it just said such a cool field. And I really liked, although I don’t know, if I like really knew how to articulate this at the time, the fact that we were working with healthy people, and as the focus on wellness, you know, kind of what I really didn’t like about being an EMT is I would get, like, stressed out, and people were like bleeding on me are super sick and dying. And I just, like found it like, emotionally really challenging. And I have so much respect for the people who can do that work. But it’s just like, I felt like I was internalizing too much of it and bringing it home. And so the opportunity to work on sleep, or like, sort of the people will be fundamentally like healthy and just trying to like understand, you know, how to sleep better? Yeah, it appealed. And, I guess, like everybody could relate to it concisely throughout eight hours a day.
Emily Capodilupo
I don’t know, I just like totally fell in love with the topic, and still totally in love with the topic. I think it’s just one of the most fascinating things that there is, and everyone loves sleeping.
Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, that’s so cool. It’s such an interesting riddle, I guess, to try to tease apart and figure out and that sounds like it’s endlessly kind of fascinating presenting new opportunities, which is very, very exciting. So for folks that are first kind of hearing about this, they’re wondering, you know, how is it? You said how this is different than a Fitbit? But how is this? How is Whoop, sort of using things like sleep to figure this out? I know that y’all created this algorithm, you did it in kind of a backward way to what I guess traditional research would do, which is like, you know, you’re going to kind of gather all their data and then create the algorithm. And from what I understand, you sort of created the algorithm first and then went out and tested it, is that correct?
Emily Capodilupo
With our recovery score, that’s true.
Steph Gaudreau
So how does that recovery score work? What are some of the things that you take into consideration inside I guess, the algorithm or the app itself to help people come up with that recovery score?
Emily Capodilupo
Yeah, so the recovery score is based on your resting heart rate from the prior night’s sleep, something called heart rate variability, which is the measure of the like variation and timing between heartbeats. Not everybody sorts of realizes this, but when we talk about things like our heart rate being you know, 60 beats per minute, it’s not actually beating like, you know, once a second, on the second, like a metronome, it varies quite a lot. And that, and so when we talk about like 60 beats, we typically mean like an average of 60 beats. And that variation kind of comes from our nervous system acting on the heart. And so like, the more variable your heart rate is sort of the more like, well balanced your nervous system is. And so it’s this kind of cool measure of like, sort of the state of your autonomic nervous system that shows up in your heart rate.
Emily Capodilupo
So the higher the heart rate variability, the better. And so we consider that in the recovery score, as well. And then we also look at your respiratory rate, so how quickly you’re breathing, and your sleep. And so we take all of those inputs, and we’re looking at them in an individualized way. So we’re comparing them to your own data over the last week and month, in order to understand like, what do these particular stacks mean for you, so that we’re like, accounting, essentially, for things like your health and your fitness. And then it creates a score between like zero and 100. So you can think about it as like a percentage of recovery, that we have, you know, many times over now validated to be a predictor of all types of performance, from athletic performance to cognitive and athletic performance, as well as things like you know, emotional performance and things like that. So it’s a pretty powerful metric of how ready your body is to adapt to, you know, the varying stimuli that you might be exposed to later that day.
Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, and it’s super cool. Just on a personal note, having used it now for just over a year, it’s been really impactful in my training as somebody who didn’t use any kind of recovery or fitness tracker for 10 years. I stopped before there was really any kind of, you know, sort of consumer, readily available consumer base, even HRV technology. And so it’s been really interesting to be able to integrate that back into sort of my routine. I know one of the things that people are really interested in trading stories about is like, and I do this with my husband, we wake up in the morning, I’m like, What’s your recovery? So we’re looking at those numbers and while we’re agreeing, we’re like, yes, we’re green. Um, so can you kind of walk us through just quickly what those different colors are and what they mean, because I think there’s in the consumer field, sometimes some misunderstanding about what the different sort of colors are like the zones, I guess, represent and what they mean about your recovery and readiness to train.
Emily Capodilupo
Yeah, so we took our zero to 100 scales, and we kind of simplified it with a stoplight, so like red, yellow, green. So 67 to 100 is like the green zone 34 to 36 is the yellow zone, and then like zero to 33, is that red zone. And, you know, for the most part, the sort of real oversimplification is like, you know, the higher your recovery, or, like, if you’re green, you’re like good to go, you’re going to be like, performing optimally, all those good things, you know, yellow, kind of, you know, less so, and red is like a pullback kind of a moment, the sort of important thing to keep in mind is that there are little things we can do, to kind of, you know, respond to that recovery score, like, if you wake up and you’re ready, if you take a nap, you’re gonna like, functionally boost your recovery a little bit. And if you eat really well, and stay hydrated, you can like functionally boost a little bit. And obviously, if you wake up green, but then day drink, it’s gonna tank your score. But what we’ve found is that, you know, if you’ve, if you’re green, you’re gonna feel really good, if you go to work out, you’re going to perform well, you know, we’ve correlated it to everything from like, you know, fastball pitching speed for professional pitchers, you know, in Major League Baseball, as well as things like, you know, reaction time, you know, in sort of, you know, various different like emergency settings and stuff like that.
Emily Capodilupo
And different cognitive performance tests. But we’ve also, we did a study about two years ago now, called Project PR, which was an eight, we had people go through an eight week, couch to 5k program. And in the control group, they just were sort of given a standard eight-week training plan called to follow it. And they took like a sort of baseline 5k. And then we compare their performance, you know, at the end of the eight weeks running a 5k. And then in the experimental group, we had them do a similar training program, except when the recoveries are was red, they reduced their training, which is really sort of like the point of a red score, it’s like, you know, your body’s not quite ready to action, this training stimulus, so probably not a good day to go really hard. And so as a result, because the experimental group was pulling back on their training load, every time they were read, over the course, of the weeks, they actually meaningfully trained less than the control group that followed the plan as written. But at the end of the week, there was no difference in their performance in the 5k. But they actually, so they have the same improvement in the running time as if they had done the full program, but they actually got injured like way, way less, we had so many more injuries in the control group that didn’t modulate their training.
Emily Capodilupo
And so some of the stuff that, you know, we’re really interested in further exploring that this study, you know, started to suggest, you know, could be going on is like, it’s not only that, like, if you exercise when your body’s not really quite ready for it, but like, you’re not going to get the same like fitness and performance gain, as well as you’re not going to perform as well, the rungs are going to be harder, and you’re not going to get as fit for having done it because your body’s like not ready to turn that workout stimulus into, you know, any kind of like gain or improvement, you’re not in a position to build the muscle because those resources are going elsewhere for other physiological processes. But when you’re running under those conditions, you’re also like, more likely to trip. So we saw a lot of like, you know, like twisted ankles and shin splints, and like those kinds of things, which are a lot of them are like formed in, you know, injuries that just kind of come from like, running poorly, like whatever, like just these little things. And so, like those, that group was dropping out, at like a higher rate, the study and all that stuff. And so it’s just really interesting, you know, to start to see that, like their recovery score. Because we’re sort of getting at these like pretty basic, like physiological measurements of readiness and adaptation, that it sort of translates to like all these different things. So both your ability to perform as well as like your risk of potentially getting injured in the workout.
Steph Gaudreau
Fascinating. And anyone who is listening to this right now and is like, I need that tattooed on my forehead. Like, it’s not like go hard or go home every single day, but it’s like, learning how to modulate that and that’s what I’m hearing. I want you to go back and listen to this segment again because this is one of the things, especially with my community that listens to the show. I mean, they tend to be people who are they’re not just lifting weights. They love lifting and my peloton, and I love running and I go hiking on the weekends like we’re doing multiple things. And maybe you are training for something where you’re kind of upping your intensity or your mileage, or whatever it is. And it can be really hard to kind of shut off that, that voice that we all hear, which is like just go hard or go home. And so I think what I hear you saying is that, at least in these, these studies, and what you’re doing here, it’s it’s showing that kind of the opposite is, is what’s bearing out with some of these folks, like they’re staying in it longer, they’re not getting injured and things like that.
Emily Capodilupo
Yeah. And I think like, you know, really goes back to why Whoop was founded, our founder and CEO will like, he was captain of the Harvard squash team and his senior year, he was so committed to working harder than everyone else because he thought that that was like his job as captain to work the hardest that he overtrained and like had a horrible season. So he like worked so much harder than everyone else only to like, epically fail, which is so sad. And he was just like, How come nobody told me I was overtraining, like, you know, he had these super fancy Division One coaches, and, you know, all this supervision and like everything, you know, whatever best money could buy back in 2011. And, like, nobody noticed what he was doing. In fact, he was getting praised for how hard he was working. And so Whoop was really founded with this, like, how do we give athletes permission to slow down, and like, it was like this direct opposition to like, you know, the, just do it, Nike Fuel Band kind of, you know, attitude or like, you know, get 10,000 steps or bust, you know, like some of these other things, or it’s like, no, actually, sometimes the best thing you can do for your body is like, go watch TV, like, sit down.
Emily Capodilupo
And like, you know, I think it was really powerful for me, I used Whoop, the first time I was training for a marathon. And, you know, you get these programs, and it’s like, okay, I have to run 80 miles on Saturday, or, like, I’m gonna fall behind my program, it’s like, no, that’s like, ideally, what you would do, but if you wake up read, like, you’re not going to get the benefit of the 18th-mile run, and like, you’re just going to make the rest of your week harder, because then you’re not going to be recovered for, you know, the six-mile run on Monday, or the, you know, all these things. So it’s like, you’re like, way better off, like, you know, to kind of taking the L on this, like, you know, whatever, go later, shorter, you know, whatever the right, kind of like pullback strategy is, but like, give yourself a chance to catch up to it. And then like, you can continue the program where we’re supposed to be, but like, if you keep pushing, you’re gonna end up like burning out or overtraining, and, you know, just not going to benefit from that. And so I think, like, you know, it’s just been, it’s cool to take that lens of like, how do we help, you know, like, when it’s safe to push, and, and when, like, you’re really not going to benefit from pushing. So like, stop, like feeling that weird pressure to go harder than you should?
Steph Gaudreau
Yes, I was sort of like doing this, like, serious nodding, you can’t see me. But as Emily was talking here, because I talked about this a ton. And I think hearing it from, from you and hearing it from what your experience is, and seeing what the data is bearing out is so powerful to be able to give people that permission. And you sort of also talked about that positive training adaptation, to be able to, you know, push when you’re ready. And that’s where you’re going to see the improvement. So, yes, go back and listen to this again, maybe three times if you struggle with that. But that’s one of the reasons I really appreciate what y’all are doing and the power of that algorithm and the recovery score, I think it is so wonderful. So let’s kind of shift directions a tiny bit, I know that one of the things you’re heavily involved in is this area where we have a huge gender gap in sports research. I mean, they’re a huge, huge gender gap in research overall, but like, especially in the world of sports and performance and things of this nature. Talk to me a little bit about sort of why you’re so passionate about the research and the direction that whoop is going with some of its initiatives to really help women and menstruating individuals really understand their training and recovery a little bit better and how all of this kind of integrates.
Emily Capodilupo
Yes. Where to begin. Well, I mean, if it’s not obvious already, you know, I am a woman who exercises so you know, this is definitely personal. But you know, I think that one thing that people really don’t realize who haven’t dug into the research is how poorly represented females are in actually in all research but in exercise physiology research in particular. There was a study that was published this past September, so like seven months ago, and they looked at all of the different top exercise physiology research journals.
Emily Capodilupo
But that was published between 2014 and 2020. And the percentage of studies that like focused on female exercise physiology was 6%. So, like, this research is not happening at all. And like in the 1990s, the NIH came out with, like a rule, basically saying that like clinical trials need to represent women. And if they’re not going to, like, you know, you need to sort of justifying it. And everybody thought was like, okay, great, this is gonna, like help close the gender research gap, make sure females are included in things like clinical trials and whatnot, but it like really hasn’t achieved at all what they set out to do, because it’s like, way too easy to like, get permission to be an exception, because it’s actually like, more expensive to account for gender differences in your research. And one of the reasons that like has been used for decades to justify excluding females from especially like exercise physiology research would actually like all clinical acumen research, is that like, controlling for the confounding effects of the menstrual cycle makes it like very, very logistically difficult and much more expensive. And when the NIH like came out with this rule, they didn’t like proportionately come out with funding to cover the extra costs involved in doing this. So they just sort of waive the rule all the time.
Emily Capodilupo
And so the like, the crazy thing about all of this is that like, in, let’s say, you know, 50-60 years ago, women really didn’t participate in sports all that much. And most research was largely like, for expense reasons, a lot of medical research, and like physiology research was done on medical students because you could sort of compelling them, it’s like, part of being a medical student, you know, in this university is you sign up for X studies a year. And there’s a lot of good reason why medical students should participate in research, because if they see these studies from the participant side, you know, years later, when they’re running these studies from the doctor side, they kind of know what it’s like to be in them. And that’s great. But as a result, we’ve sort of taken the average medical student like the 150-pound male, and said, this is our prototype of a person.
Emily Capodilupo
Let’s do all our research on the prototypical person, the 150-pound male, and then say, you know, everybody kind of sort of behaves like this. And that’s why we think, see things like, you know, nutrition labels are based on the 2000 calorie diet, I don’t know about you, I don’t eat anything close to you know, 2000 calories. That’s because that’s what a typical 150 250-pound male is eating. And so all of our nutrition research, it’s all done on men, you know, and then we just say like, yeah, women do, you know, minus some lady tax or whatever, some percentage of that, but we don’t account for things like the fact that you know, during your follicular versus your luteal phase, your menstrual cycle, you actually have like different nutritional needs, you know, that we don’t just like straight-up need, you know, 80% of what men need because we’re smaller. And so this research just doesn’t get done.
Emily Capodilupo
And every time we start to touch this research at Whoop, we see that you know, this is a Stacey Sims quote, but you know, women are not small men like we have these like very, very important physiological differences that exist from birth by virtue of new being chromosomally distinct. And if we don’t do the research on women, we start to see that like, just assuming that they’re small men, really, really like does horrible disservice to them. And this is true, you know, directly in exercise physiology, but like also in clinical research, more broadly, has been one of the biggest sorts of medical embarrassments in our lifetimes. Just like when Ambien first came out, it’s a really powerful sleep drug, all the clinical trials are done on men. And basically, women were massively overdosed because the sort of dosing that women need per pound of body mass is about half of what men should get, but we were getting dosed like men. And so all of these women were like massively overdosing on Ambien and then having these like wild hallucinations, like really bad reactions.
Emily Capodilupo
And it took years for them to like, understand what was going on. And it could have been really easily fixed or avoided if they had been included in the clinical trials. And we’re seeing the same thing. You know, it’s not always like quite as obvious what’s going on. When we see the same thing you know, with women in exercise physiology research, like women tear their ACL is at about eight times the rate that men do, but about 40% of exercise physiology studies on ACL tears are done in women. So if we’re having like eight times the ACL tears, but like less than half I have like the representation in these research, like, it’s no wonder that we’re doing a better job, like staying on top of, you know, knee health and ACL management in men than in women. And then just like on the more kind of practical side, you know, not necessarily like tied to injuries that you can pinpoint. We see that like, by age 14, women are dropping out of sport at twice the rate that men are in by age 17, about 51% of females have like fully left the sport. And I think that is not at all coincidental that those stats are like, right around kind of like the bookends of puberty. And like, as these gender differences, like really start to manifest themselves, and when women really start to become like, very meaningfully, not small men, even when we’re all children, we’re kind of small men, right, just like people are people.
Emily Capodilupo
But after puberty, you know, your bodies are changing this way. And like exercise physiology research, like really has not figured out, you know, what a fully formed, female, like should be doing. And, like, we’re just aren’t doing as good a job. And so I think like, not necessarily like through injury or anything, but it’s a sport just stops feeling right or feeling good. And so we see like, women just massively exciting sport. And I think lots and lots of research done in men and women have shown that like, you know, longevity and quality of life is super tied to being active. So if we’re you, by neglecting research into how to comfortably and safely exercise, you know, as a person with a uterus, with these ovarian hormones, like, we’re sort of setting these people up to sort of opt-out, and therefore, you know, reduce their health later in life, shorten their lifespans, you know, short, like, feel less good, be less healthy. And, you know, I feel like, that’s a really big problem.
Emily Capodilupo
And so, you know, all of the reasons why people have been lazy, about properly, like doing research and women, you know, things like the fact that it’s hard to get enough data in order to control for factors like the menstrual cycle or wearables, we are sitting on so so much data, that we can actually do these studies that are like completely impractical, or just like really, prohibitively expensive in traditional academic settings. But we’re just like literally sitting on this data. So when we wanted to start to understand how the menstrual cycle affected things like recovery, we were like, we’re like, Okay, let’s go do this project. And we realized we already had, you know, 10s of 1000s of menstrual cycles collected on whoop, you know, from 1000s, and 1000s, of different, you know, female-identifying members. And so we were able to do this study, you know, on data that already existed, where, like, if you were in an exercise physiologist in a university setting that wanted to go collect that data, it would take years and millions and millions of dollars. And so, you know, we were sort of positioned to uniquely contribute to the field. And so I do feel an important sense of responsibility to start to fill those gaps. And, you know, I’ve been lucky to have a mostly female data science team here at Whoop, which is really unique in the field, especially, you know, you count for us being like a techie startup.
Emily Capodilupo
But, you know, we’ve, we’ve done a lot of research, you know, in this space, and have you can I get into that research?
Steph Gaudreau
Oh, yeah, I would, I would, I’m just like listening to you. And just content is just so drawn in, because I think this is so so important. And yeah, so yeah, tell us what you’re finding and sort of what’s coming up.
Emily Capodilupo
Yeah. So I guess, just one minute of background for people who aren’t familiar, but you can think about the menstrual cycles, kind of having two phases, separated by the administration, which is like the bleeding phase and then ovulation, which is releasing an egg. And so from ministration to ovulation is your follicular phase, during which ovarian hormones like estrogen progesterone are relatively low. And then from ovulation to menstruation is the luteal phase. And those levels of those ovarian hormones are relatively high.
Emily Capodilupo
And basically, what’s going on there is that the luteal phase essentially, like you’ve just ovulated and your body doesn’t yet know if you fertilize that egg. So it’s kind of like hormonally we’re trying to sustain a pregnancy. And so we divert all these resources to the uterus to support pregnancy. And so you tend to see things like our core body temperatures higher, you know, heart rates are higher or HRVs are lower, were much less recovered than during the follicular phase. Because ministration is basically like I’ve given up on getting pregnant this month. You know, so cleared everything out and I’m in resetting so all those hormones are low until I release an egg again, and then I’m like, maybe I’m pregnant. Let me go support baby, right. So that’s kind of the cycle of like, maybe I’m pregnant support baby, okay, I’m not pregnant, like chill out for a moment. And so when you’re in that, like maybe on pregnant support baby phase, we see that like your recovery scores are way, way lower. And when you’re in that stressful luteal phase, and when you’re in their follicular phase, but kind of chilling in between menstruating and ovulating, all of those hormones are lower. But physiologically, we’re not diverting all of these resources to, you know, a hopeful pregnancy. So they’re available for things like performing athletically and building muscle. And so we see things like much, much higher recovery scores, we tend to sleep a lot better during that phase.
Emily Capodilupo
And it’s also like some research, although it’s a little bit. It’s been disproven and proven and all these things. But it seems like there’s more injuries happening during the luteal phase as well. There’s a lot of research on ACL tears and the menstrual phase. But during the follicular phase, because your recovery score is so much higher, and you know, your body’s sort of primed to respond to the exercise stimulus, because there’s less going on, we’re not trying to sustain a pregnancy if we modulate our training, so we have higher intensity training during our follicular phase and lower intensity training during the luteal phase, you can actually get more fit more efficiently. And so if you understand your menstrual cycle, and how to like work with it, the data that no we published in the British Medical Journal last year, you know, shows that you can get that same ID basically a more efficient path to like the same ROI. It’s like a work smarter, not a harder thing.
Emily Capodilupo
And there’s a lot of research, you know, around. Like, you know how to how to work with your cycle, if you understand, you know, what’s going on, like, that you can leverage you beyond just like, okay I have to. If you’re in a team sport, for example, it can be really difficult to like fully control how hard you’re training, but there’s a lot you can do within the training. So like, when your progesterone levels are high in the luteal phase, your core body temperatures are higher, and we also tend to sweat more and in doing so lose salt. And when we lose that salt, it makes it what makes us less tolerant to heat stress.
Emily Capodilupo
And so you can offset this by supplementing with electrolytes and being more conscious of hydrating, then you unnecessarily have to be in your follicular phase. So there’s a huge advantage to tracking your menstrual cycle and to planning your training around it and just being aware of like, how do these hormones, you know, how are they relevant to me, even if I’m not like, actively trying to get pregnant, I think like so many women are just like, you know, you learn about your period, and, you know, middle school, and then you learn about, you know, the reproductive cycle in high school, and then you’re kind of ignore it until you’re trying to get pregnant. And it’s like, okay, I need to know that ovulation or whatever.
Emily Capodilupo
But these hormones are like, super relevant to how we train. And they affect how we sleep and how we feel. And you know, what we need to hydrate like all these, like really basic things, every single day of our lives, you know, until menopause, when they kind of find out. And so, you know, we’re really excited about doing that research. And one of the things, you know, that we released earlier this year, you know, sort of following up on the research is a version of our strain poach feature that like gives you a training recommendation that you previously just used to take into account your recovery score, but now it accounts for both your recovery score and your menstrual cycle phase. So we can leverage this information, you know, directly for you and not make you like have to translate our research paper, you know, in your head or anything like that. And we’re the only wearable who is doing this. And so we’re trying to make, you know, as safe as possible, you know, for individuals who are menstruating, you know, to train and to get the most like, you know, bang for their buck, if you will, like on that training, set their training when their body is primed for it, and then resting when they’re not really going to get a meaningful return on that exercise investment anyway.
Steph Gaudreau
I love all of that. And I think the way that you all do it in terms of what the app looks like, and the integration of that is very easy to understand. And the other thing I appreciate about it, too is that I see this a lot sort of in the weird game of telephone that sometimes exists on social media, where yes, we do have these physiological differences. And we can certainly, you know, I’m really in any day of our cycle like not be recovered and have that low recovery score. But I think what I appreciate is that their recommendations are really they’re easy to use, and they’re not something that’s like what I see on social sometimes, which is, you know, we shouldn’t lift weights at all in this in the luteal phase. Or, you know, we shouldn’t do you know, XYZ in the follicular phase and it’s just like, you know, this girl an oversimplification of some of you know, the research and what we know. So I really appreciate the way that whoop handles that. And I think it’s very empowering the way that you do it without overwhelming the user.
Steph Gaudreau
Because a lot of people are just like, you know, just give me something easy to follow that I can implement really quickly and not have to worry about doing something different in every single day of, of the cycle, you know if that’s going on. So if somebody were to say, like open their app and look at them, at their menstrual cycle coaching feature, like, what might they see on a day in their follicular phase? Like what made it tell them?
Emily Capodilupo
Yeah, so I’m in my follicular phase right now. And so when I look at the string coach feature, it tells me that I’m in my follicular phase, and then it tells me that, you know, the recommendation that it’s giving me is adjusted for that. So for my recovery score, which today is 91%.
Steph Gaudreau
Oh, you beat me by a lot.
Emily Capodilupo
So normally, I would be given you know, already, like a fairly high strain recommendation, this is going to be even higher, because it’s a 91% of my follicular phase. And it would be if I got a 91% in my luteal phase. So it’s letting me know like where that recommendation is coming from. And then, in this case, let’s see what are you it is going to tell me to get a strain of a 15.7, which if you’re not familiar with, it’s out of 21. So that’s a pretty high strain. I got a 15.7. The last time I ran, I think about 10 miles, so it’s a pretty good workout. Um, but yeah, so it’s, it does all the work for you. So you don’t need to do any of the translating and show you why it’s giving you the recommendation. And then you can just trust that it’s, you know, taking into account where you are, hormonally, you know, in order to give you the best possible recommendation, yeah.
Steph Gaudreau
I love that. And I love how we’re, like, I’m at a 45, I had a really hard day of training yesterday. So today’s my rest day. I’m gonna take it easy today. But I love that. Do you have any insights or sort of how is Whoop looking at things like the menopause transition? Or what are some of the things that you’re seeing as, as folks are heading toward that menopause moment? I guess, with training and things like that?
Emily Capodilupo
Such a good question. You’re gonna have to come back and ask me that in a little bit because we saw last month in March was International Women’s month. And you know, in honor of International Women’s Month, we did a big survey of all the different reproductive phases. So we’re asking women if they were in perimenopause, menopause, as well as all the different phases related to pregnancy. So if they were trying to conceive, pregnant, or recently postpartum, and we’ve been going through all the pregnancy data so far, which has been absolutely fascinating having a ton of fun going through that data, especially because my sister just had a baby and two of my sisters are pregnant right now. So totally surrounded by babies and pregnancy. But we’re planning on tackling the perimenopause and menopause data next and really trying to understand how all the work that we did, you know, the last two years around menstrual cycles really needs to account for especially perimenopause.
Emily Capodilupo
So that’s the like, five-ish year period leading into menopause where your periods start to become less regular. You know, for people who are familiar, it’s like, you know, you start to get hot flashes, and like all these different kinds of menopause symptoms. And you know, the levels of these different ovarian hormones start to fluctuate and reduce. And so likely, we will need to adapt what we did around you know, all this menstrual cycle coaching to account for sort of peak fertile years menstrual cycle coaching, and then what perimenopause, menstrual cycle coaching needs to look like. And then once you go through menopause, that’s like the complete cessation of your menstrual period dug cycle, we will likely also, you know, expand the future in order to properly account for that phase.
Emily Capodilupo
And so all of that will be coming, you know, now that we’ve collected all the data, hopefully, you know, later this year, but really excited to dig into that research. I think it’s totally underserved. area. You know, as I said earlier, 6% of all exercise physiology research focuses on female athletes, you can imagine what pathetically tiny fraction of that is going to be focused on perimenopausal and menopausal athletes, because really, most of the funding is like in the professional and collegiate space anyway. So most of the research that gets done is like, you know, you’re 20 to maybe 30 to 35-year-old athletes, and there’s just very very little funding and like, people don’t care, unfortunately, about what happens later. But it’s really unfortunate because, you know, that’s such a critical age to be like staying active in order to promote longevity. And if we just continue to model you as a 150-pound male, like, we’re just going to get further and further ado, services, you get and keep in mind that 150-pound male, like the prototypical human, is also a med student. So you’re talking about like a 23-year-old.
Emily Capodilupo
So like, you just get so far away from that, that it’s hard to sort of say that that prototype represents you. And so, you know, I think we really do set up those individuals for, you know, failure, because the research doesn’t generalize to them. And, you know, so we’re really excited, we collected data from 1000s of perimenopausal and menopausal, you know, females. And so, you know, we’re going to be able to do research and at once we get a chance, just have the bandwidth to start analyzing it to sort of understand what research in that population looks like, in a way that, again, like academic research, just failed to comment on. And so, you know, we’re excited to be a part of closing that gap.
Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, I think that’s incredible. And I’m, I’m really excited that y’all are, are doing that. And I think that women, especially approaching the menopause transition, feel really left out. And, you know, thinking back to even my mom is in her mid-60s. And you know, women of that generation, we’re often not participating in sport at the level because of things like Title Nine, I mean, there was a lot of things that shifted where women were more interested in sports and continuing on in that. And so I think we’re seeing kind of this interesting generational difference where there are a lot of women who are, for the first time even starting to do things like lifting weights in their 40s. I hear from them all the time. They’re like, I started lifting last year, I’m 43. I’m like, yes, that’s amazing. And also, like, there’s probably going to be some changes happening to your body relatively soon, that could affect your training. So I think having this really interesting, generational shift, we have more conversation around these days or more women who are like, you know, what I want to stay active and, and be athletic into my 40s 50s 60s. And beyond that is super exciting. And yet probably also, you know, when you look at the body of research is just like, Oh, dear, what are we going to do? Because we don’t have a lot of really good guidance. You don’t have a lot of really good data on that.
Emily Capodilupo
Yeah. And I really love that you brought up Title Nine, I think people don’t realize that the 50th anniversary of Title Nine is this June, it was passed on June 23, 1972. So like, in my mom’s lifetime, it sounds like yours as well, you know, Title Nine was introduced, and things were dramatically changed. You know, my mom’s also in her 60s and bought her first pound of free set of three-pound weights this year, and she’s proud that she has her like, you know, 20-minute weightlifting routine. And I’m so so proud of her that she’s doing that. She’s just like, you’re really trying, but like, people don’t realize how much of like, what ends up guiding the way that menopausal women train is just kind of like, folklore and guesses, you know, it’s like the doctors like, yeah, it’s probably good for you to do this. And like we know, that like doing load-bearing stuff is probably good for osteoporosis prevention and stuff like that. But like we haven’t personally done this research, is we’re just like, we’re just making it up. And like, when we make stuff up, we’re at such a high risk of getting it wrong. And just doing this, like a huge disservice to this population that like, wants, wants to do it right. You know, it’s like, my mom bought the weights, and she has her routine, and she’s committed to doing it. And it’s like, we owe people like that some actual science-backed guidance on how to do this optimally.
Emily Capodilupo
And so, you know, it’s definitely disappointing when you like, start to like Google, like Google Scholar, you’re trying to look up, like what research exists, and you’re like, oh, all of the research that exists, I can read in this hour. Like, that’s, like two studies. But you know, the flip side of that is that there’s a real opportunity to close the gap.
Steph Gaudreau
We appreciate what you are doing and what you’re spearheading, you’re obviously very passionate about it, and for good reason. And I think, you know, using the platform and the technology for that good is such a mission I can get behind. And that’s why I just really love what y’all are doing there. Let’s maybe close it out with I was thinking an interesting question could be what are like maybe two or three lesser-known things that you’ve seen have really had a positive impact on, I guess, recovery, that people don’t talk about? I mean, we talked about things like sleep, and so on and so forth. Are there any unexpected ones that have come out in, in looking at so much data over the years like the kind of hidden gems that maybe people aren’t necessarily aware of that are in have seen the recovery or can make the recovery scores better.
Emily Capodilupo
So one thing that I am on a huge, huge crusade to get people to understand is we actually had a paper come out last night.
Steph Gaudreau
Last night?
Emily Capodilupo
Yes, it got published last night Oh, which is the foundation sleep journal that was looking at the relationship between sleep and mental health during the COVID 19 pandemic. And one of the key findings of the paper is that sleep consistency, which is our proprietary metric of like how consistent your bedtime and wake times are, was actually a better predictor of whether or not you had adverse mental health outcomes during the pandemic than sleep duration alone. And so going to bed and waking up at the same time, because it allows you to have a stable circadian rhythm, you end up having like way higher quality sleep, and that higher-quality sleep can offset sort of like the downside of having like less absolute sleep. So going to bed at the same time, and waking up at the same time is one of the most protective things you can do for yourself as far as your mental health is resilient, and it’s even more protective than just getting enough sleep by itself. So if you control for that, you still see bedtime waketime consistency, hugely, hugely important.
Emily Capodilupo
And what was crazy about the findings of this study, and I’m happy to send you the link was that we looked at resilience. So like your sleep consistency, in the three months before the pandemics from January to mid-March 2020. And that was predictive of whether or not you were screening positive for, adverse mental health outcomes, like trauma and stress-related disorders, anxiety, and depression at the end of June 2020. So having high sleep consistency, months earlier, predicted whether or not you are going to be resilient or not to the pandemic, and also the sort of mental health stressors associated with it. And so it’s like, it’s almost idea that you can like bank resilience, because it was like three months earlier, predicting how you were going to respond to the pandemic, even if you acutely had bad sleep consistency during the pandemic. So, you know, I think a lot of times people have this attitude, like, oh, tomorrow, I don’t need to go to work. So I can like, stay up late and like, you know, drink and watch TV or whatever, and it doesn’t matter. Or like, you know, I don’t really need to perform tomorrow. So I can, like, you know, do whatever I want right now. But the data shows that like when we’re disciplined about our, like, the health of our circadian rhythm by having a healthy sleep-wake schedule, that like we get benefits of that, like months out. So there’s like a lot of reason to think that like, you should stay disciplined, like, even if you acutely, like, tomorrow doesn’t really matter. Like, don’t treat like tomorrow as a wash, because it’s like you’re kind of saving up for when you really need it. And so it’s really, really cool to see that outcome. Definitely, like the first time, anything like that was demonstrated. So we’re excited to get that paper published. We were working on it for about two years before it finally came. But I think you know, that’s a finding we’re really excited about and you know, particularly excited about since the paper is less than 24 hours old.
Steph Gaudreau
Hot off the presses!
Emily Capodilupo
Hot off the presses and perfect timing because May is Mental Health Awareness Month. So you know, something that we’re acutely focused on right now.
Steph Gaudreau
Well, congratulations. And you know, to anybody out there who is wondering like, how long does academic research take? And, you know, to your point it’s been something in the works for the last couple of years. So that’s really exciting. I think that that finding is very interesting. And hopefully, that will encourage people to you know, I think we say this a lot is like consistent sleep, the bedtime more consistent wake time. And you know, I get it like our lives are really there’s a lot of demands, there may be some of that revenge, bedtime, procrastination going on and things like that. But hopefully, this is something that you can use to as like, you know, there’s some data to support this idea of how this helps circadian rhythm and how they can help overall health but yes, to the to your point mental health as well. So that’s wonderful.
Steph Gaudreau
Well, thank you so much for being here. This has been such an absolute treat, to have you on to talk about your area of expertise, what Whoop is up to especially the things with closing the gender gap, and some of the ways that you’re looking at that research and integrating that with the app itself. In the wearable. I think this is really exciting. And is there anything that you’d want the listeners to know? Like, where can they go find out more? I know y’all have a great blog and podcast, like anything else that you want to direct people to?
Emily Capodilupo
Oh, well, The Locker is our blog, so you can just search Whoop.com/thelocker. But yeah, I think I think we covered all the important stuff. Thank you so much for having me.
Steph Gaudreau
Yeah, absolutely. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much and best of luck with all of your research we’ll be looking for all those new exciting developments coming down the pipe.
Emily Capodilupo
Thank you.
Steph Gaudreau
Okay, I could honestly listen to Emily talk all day long. I am just so appreciative of her coming on this show and sharing her knowledge, her expertise, her knowledge of sleep, and also a lot of the things that she’s helping to spearhead at Whoop. She’s really involved in so much, but I do appreciate her attention to really helping us understand things like how the menstrual cycle and also Okay, upcoming you heard her talk about perimenopause, the menopause transition, and so much more. I think it’s about time that we have more information, we know more about ourselves, and we’re able to apply it in a way that is simple and straightforward, and not more confusing than it has to be so big thanks to Emily for coming on the show and sharing her expertise.
Steph Gaudreau
You can find the show notes for this episode, of course at StephGaudreau.com. While you’re there, check out and apply for Strength Nutrition Unlocked. Hit subscribe on your podcast app that’s super important. It sends a signal to your app that you liked the show and that other people might like it as well. And if you liked this episode, go share it out on Instagram stories and tag me so I can reshare thank you so much for being here on this podcast today, and until next time, stay strong.
