When it comes to our journey of body liberation there can be some boundaries, including the processing of emotions. Jess Demasi is a certified eating psychology coach, the founder of Wholly Healed and is passionate about helping people redefine health without diet culture. Today Jess is here to encourage you to give yourself permission to define what it is to be a woman in this life for you and only you.
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Create A Radical Sense Of Awareness
This episode is all about unpacking some of the stigmas and privileges that we can all unknowingly carry, and taking a step back without judgment but instead with curiosity to keep asking yourself the hard questions when it comes to your relationship with your body.
Jess is on a mission to create a radical sense of awareness and help women unapologetically show up as who they are. Today is all about gaining skills to develop your own sense of liberation, whatever that may be for you, and removing judgment towards what you are feeling in a healthy way.
You are more than just your body, and it is through the separation of your identity and your body that you can deal with what is really going on internally and heal yourself from the inside out. By asking the hard questions and feeling where the healing needs to come from you can learn to care for yourself and become your own autonomous agent.
Are you ready to start on your path to liberation? Share your thoughts with us in the comments below.
On Today’s Episode
- Learn about the role of desirability privilege and desirability politics in our society (10:10)
- Deconstructing body autonomy and being aware of your own motivations (20:12)
- How to embrace your journey of liberation as an experience just for you (23:20))
- Tips for living a liberated life and showing up as who you are unapologetically (26:05)
- Ways to use the RAIN acronym to process your emotions in a healthy way (28:42)
Resources Mentioned In This Show
Follow Jess on Instagram
Apply for Steph’s Intuitive Eating Group Coaching Here
Quotes
“Being thin and pretty as a woman should not be a pre-requisite for the value that we’re given, nor should it be a requirement for our existence.” (5:46)
“Any time we have what we call the happiness destination paradox, where we imagine that our emotions, our internal world, would be different if our external world was different. That is when you have that chasm, and you are taking internal issues that should be worked on internally and you are projecting them onto your external appearance.” (15:07)
“I am here to ask the questions to get you thinking, and then what you do with that is completely your responsibility.” (21:01)
“All that I can ask for is a radical sense of awareness.” (22:23)
“I don’t think that the world benefits from women who are living to please other people. I think that actually what we desperately need, for kindness and compassion and to solve the world’s problems, in our individual lives and in the larger aspect of the world, is women showing up in their completely whole, authentic selves.” (26:08)
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Unpacking Emotions & Body Liberation w/ Jess Demasi FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steph:
This is episode two 69 of harder to kill radio on today’s show. Jes Demasi of Wholly Healed is dropping by to discuss barriers to body liberation that include the processing of emotions. Now before we jump into today’s episode, just want to give you a quick heads up. Very soon the name of this podcast will be changing. Yes, that’s correct. The name of the podcast, harder to kill radio. We’ll be changing after nearly four and a half years. Now I’m giving you this quick heads up here, so in case you haven’t listened in a while or you’re a newer listener, you’re not completely disoriented when the name changes. Suffice to say, there will be a full episode that explains why this change is taking place and here’s the two need to know. There’s nothing to do. You don’t need to do anything. The feed is the remaining exactly the same. We’re just changing the name and giving it a bit of a refresh so you can keep subscribing just like you are. If you haven’t subscribed yet cause you’re newer, please hit that button and I’ll keep you updated as soon as all of the changes are going to roll out. All right, let’s jump in.
Steph:
I’m Steph Gaudreau. I help women get stronger, know their worth and take up space without restrictive dieting or exercise as punishment. I’m here to share that you can approach nutrition, fitness, and mindset from a place of nourishment so you begin to trust yourself more deeply. Let’s talk about how to embrace your body and own your power. Now with over two and a half million downloads, this is harder to kill radio.
Steph:
Thanks so much for joining me today on this episode. I’m really pleased to be welcoming Justin Massey of wholly healed to the show today. She’s a certified eating psychology coach and she’s really passionate about helping people redefine health without diet culture and today we’re going to be digging into some of the things that she’s seen in her practice with barriers to body liberation including but not exclusively, how we process emotions. We’re talking about things like desirability, privilege, and why she does taboo Tuesdays. Today on the show. This is a really amazing episode and I hope you tune in to hear the justice point of view. Today’s episode brought to you by two very important things. First, my intuitive eating group coaching program is currently open for enrollment. You can find out more information if you visit Steph gaudreau.com that’s my, you can find out how to get on the mailing list and I would really just invite you if you’re curious about intuitive eating, you’re ready to take that next step. You’ve tried it on your own and it’s just been too overwhelming. You would like guidance. My program is going to be open for enrollment while today’s episode is out and it closes pretty soon. We’re going to be kicking off that group coaching program on the 10th of February, so get ahold of me. If you don’t know where to find me, you can find me on Instagram. Uh, if you really can’t find links, just DM me there or if you’re looking on my website, you will find links to the newsletter.
Steph:
Best welcome. Thanks so much for being on the podcast today. Thank you for having me. Oh, it’s a pleasure and an honor. Um, I’ve been following your work for quite some time on Instagram now. I always love your posts and what you have to say and you sharing your voice and perspective. I love your taboo. Tuesdays,
Jess:
crown favor. Those are definitely my favorite for sure.
Steph:
For anyone who’s not familiar, what is taboo Tuesday?
Jess:
So taco Tuesday is something I started a couple of years back. Um, and it was genuinely just out of the need to discuss topics that were not commonly discussed, particularly in women’s circle. So it actually started out as things as basic as like East infections and um, pelvic floor issues and like Acme under BA. And it’s completely progressed to, it’s completely progressed to like, how are we show like the [inaudible] the oppression things we face as women and then showing up not as a talking doll and actually like what it means to be a woman in the braided nurse skin and things that are so necessary, like necessary conversations to have that I just don’t think enough people are having or they’re scared to have or they’re ashamed to have. And so taboo Tuesday was just like a safe space, um, to share that voice. And those are always a favor because like, you know, we as humans tend to hide, but we most desperately want to be in the light, you know? So I find that those are tend to be the most popular and engagement then needed to hear.
Steph:
Yeah. Like nobody told me about chin hairs growing randomly on my face when I was, you know, 35 or whatever. Is there a topic on taboo Tuesday that you think has really resonated the most or you know, a few things that stand out to you?
Jess:
Hmm. Yeah, there’s been a few that have resonated with my community a lot. One actually I just posted yesterday was really a big topic and it was essentially talking about, you know, that being thin and pretty as a woman like should not be a prerequisite for the value that we’re given, nor should it be a requirement for our existence. And that resonated a lot with us because I think that it’s one of those things that so many of us function out of the belief as women walking around, that no matter what we are the [inaudible] met, the best, most valuable thing that we can be is aesthetically pleasing, right? It’s to fulfill this role of womanhood. And so many of us don’t even understand or realize just how much, how many roles we internalize, like what being a woman is, right? It’s not this, Hey, you are free to live your life and look like what you want and make the decisions that what you want.
Jess:
It’s, no, no, no, this has been set before you because if you want to be valued, if you want to be seen, if you want to be given love and acceptance and all of these things, you have to follow this roadmap. And a lot of it has to do with how you act up, particularly how, what you look like. And I think, you know, so much of where my work and wholly healed, you know, I started a few years ago, I actually started in the realm of um, hormone health as it pertain it, as it pertained to eating disorders because that was kind of where my field was and it’s completely shifted now a few years later to really like the roots and the complete foundation of the matter, which is eating disorders. You know, diet culture being, you know, hating our body, all the body magicians. There’s, there is a fundamental root line throughout all of us, which is that we were never given permission to define what it is to be ourselves and a woman in his life.
Jess:
You know what I mean? Like, we are constantly being thrown at us, all of these things we should be. And that is producing so many consequences in our life, like physically and mentally, emotionally and socially. And so I kind of figured and you know, client after client, you know, you pick up on like a few things like wow, we’re talking about flu but this isn’t really about food. And we’re talking about dieting, but this isn’t only about dieting. And then you get, you dig, dig, dig, and you realize it’s like none of us know what it is to just make our own decisions and not give a fuck what other people think. I mean it’s like literally ingrained in our DNA to constantly care because we weren’t given that freedom of just getting to decide that for ourselves. Right. So that was a little tangent. But tablet Tuesday is essentially, I mean that’s what it’s for. It’s about teaching. Should I say, helping shutters? So those of us that are just, I should do this. I shouldn’t be this, I should this become give no shitters. So I just want like, I want to create a generation of women who instead of thinking about what I should wear, what I should be eating, what I should look like, what I should want, they’re actually able to know what they want themselves, trust their own intuition and become fully functioning independent, like truly autonomous agents.
Steph:
Hmm. You know, when you were talking about, uh, your post yesterday and I saw that and really appreciated the conversation, it brought up this really interesting chat that I had with somebody in a podcasting group as podcasts, women, podcasters, female podcasters, women-identifying podcasters. And the conversation was something like, you know, the question was, do you like it when you see somebody show art, you know, like their thumbnail and it has their picture it, is that something that’s appealing to you? And um, there were, most people said, yeah, I want to know who it is, what they look like. You know, it helps me create a sense of connection with that person. And there was a really interesting counterpoint, which was something along the lines of, you know, is that when we see people presenting themselves a certain way, yeah. You know, is that using our appearance to validate our authority or you know, like especially if we fall into [inaudible] societally um, dominant groups. Right. And I just thought that was such an interesting counterpoint because I was like, well shit, I mean I am a white, a white woman, I am a, you know, thin-bodied woman, I’m an able-bodied woman, you know? So like it just, I was like, huh. And it just really brought up an interesting um, yeah, conversation. But we talked about this off-air or you know, this stuff is like an unpacking of these imaginary suitcases that we all carry. And it is, it is a process.
Jess:
Yes. Oh yes. I love that. I love, first of all, I love that there you’re having conversations, you’re in a group like that. But this is very inline with, I don’t know if you’ve heard this term because it’s relatively new, but politics of desirability or desirability for glitch and it’s essentially in so many words like that, which we think is there were more attracted to that. They receive preferential treatment and particularly, you know, men particularly there, they’re kinder too, female-identifying folk that they view as attractive. Right? Children are more favorite in school. They’re more popular, they’re more popular than more attractive. They seem, they get small things like, you know, people open doors for them and people in department stores are more willing to help them. But then they get bigger things like preferential bias in job interviews, you know, and their studies and studies on this. And, and it’s really interesting because
Jess:
you experience things like this in your every day and I mean we, it’s very obvious that we know it because on a very base level understanding, we try desperately to be seen as ascetically attractive because why? Because it does hold power and weight in society, right? So it’s almost this, this challenge of having to teach people how to do away with that while also recognizing that like this is a power structure that’s at play in society and we need to learn how to not get into it and participate in it while actively fighting to change it. Because even there’s even layers within that ideal because what is the ideal to find as well? There’s like race, you know, in there there’s preferential, there’s money and status in there. You know, it’s very multilayered. So you’re right. It’s one of those things where it’s like you could track an everyday feeling or an everyday decision and what you deal with every day, two very large issues at play because they weren’t just born in your life.
Jess:
You know what I mean? It’s on an individual micro. Mmm. Causation. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. You know, you said earlier how when you know people come to work with you, it’s, you know, on the surface it’s about the diet or it’s about the weight loss or whatever is the presenting issue. But digging deeper and finding the root is really important. Yeah. Why do you think we have the, is it a lack of languaging? Is it a lack of just awareness of this phenomenon, right? Where you know as well as I do when you start working with somebody, it’s rarely just about that thing, but it’s almost like the, the weak part in a chain and that’s where the break starts to happen. Or, you know, why do you think that this is such a prevalent presentation of, you know, the da like my body’s not perfect or my, you know, I can’t, I still can’t lose weight.
Jess:
Like it’s about what I’m eating. Why is that the case in your opinion? There’s, you know, there’s a couple of elements to that. One, I think that that’s a natural byproduct of raising Mmm. Women to believe that they are bodies first and people second. And so when you are raised believing that your body is your identity, right? Like your looks is who you are, it’s a value that you bring that becomes the scapegoat for everything in your life. Right. So I was saying, you know earlier that something that I notice and see is that we have this massive crisis of people who can’t actually processing cope with their emotions. Because what happens when we’re having an off day, when we’re having, when we’re really sad, the first thing we do is associated with what we’re looking like. Well, I’m bloated. Like I feel what’s classic. I feel fat today, right?
Jess:
And there’s so many things wrong with even saying that, but it’s like we don’t have the proper words to say, actually I’m feeling inadequate. Actually I’m being challenged in my identity and I’m feeling not good enough and I’m having, you know what I’m saying? All of these things that are very deep and difficult things to cope with. But instead what we do is we look in the mirror and we say, well, I’m just, I don’t feel pretty. Like I don’t feel good enough. And so that to me is one of those massive issues where we have taken necessary kind of like basic human emotional health skills. Being able to articulate what we feel, cope with what we feel, separate our feelings from who we are. And instead, because our identity is now wrapped in our body, it actually all becomes about what we look like.
Jess:
You know? And if you wonder, you know, why don’t do that? I don’t think I do that in my everyday life. We’ll just ask ourselves, how many times have we looked at our body and looks at our life and thought, no, no, no, but, but I actually would be happy if I was thinner or prettier on my belt was bigger or my skin cleared up. Right? Like any time we have that, what I call the happiness destination paradox, right? Where we imagined that our emotions, our world would be different if our external world was different. That is when you have that chasm, right? That’s, that’s when you’re kind of, you’re taking internal issues that should be worked on internally and you are now projecting them on your external appearance. And that is a really big problem. And that’s why I think, yeah, I mean you’re right.
Jess:
You got so many clients and their, you know, I have an issue with food and I finished with body and I mean at least for me in my experience, like we just stopped talking about food and their body probably around session three. And then the rest of that is just family dysfunction, boundaries, feelings of inadequacy, identity. Who are you? If you’re not a body, like these aren’t hard fucking questions. And that’s why people don’t ask them. Not just because they’re hard though, because no one’s ever like, people don’t teach this shit in school, right? Like you, you don’t, you don’t learn this. And so you grow up. Combine that with it, you know, society that tells you, Hey, you’re a girl. Like you’re a doll, you’re cute and you’re beautiful. And the best thing that you could be is pretty, I mean, it’s great if you’re smart and it’s ready if you’re capable. But if you’re those and hot, right, like you are winning. And then you combine that with a vast lack of education about emotional health, and you now live a life where you’re, you’re kind of demeaning your whole existence onto what you look like. And it’s, I mean, not only is it just a shitty place to be, but it’s not a quality of life, you know?
Steph:
Yeah, absolutely. I’m over here nodding very enthusiastically. Um, but yeah, it does take a, it takes, um,
Jess:
yeah,
Steph:
and amount of trust in that safe, that safe space and container to have been provided for even those thoughts or questions, right? Like who am I without this? Who am I? If I’m not just a body to even come out in the, and so that this work, I feel like, um, why you provide such an amazing resource for people as you create, you have pretty strong boundaries. Like you’re one of those people that’s just like, this is what we’re talking about. This is what not what we’re talking about. Um, if you’re a deck, you can just, you know, jog on, but you know, in, you’re providing that for people and without even that container to begin with. And I’m sure, you know, when you’re coaching people working with them more closely, that’s there, um, in, in an even greater degree. But you know, you’re right. Like how do you even start to ask those? Like, how do we even know the questions to ask when it’s been made such a surface level? You know, thing like this, it’s just all about how we look.
Jess:
Yeah, that’s a great question. And it’s, I mean, it’s [inaudible] it’s, well, I’ll just kind of dig into it. Um, something that I think is really important is one, like first and foremost, you have to be willing to step out of the unconscious kind of natural way of coping with things. Because often what happens is like you can’t fix or heal what you don’t even see, right? You can’t fight an enemy if you don’t know the enemy. And so you have to first bring awareness. Like awareness has to be the first step. So just beginning to take a step back without judgment, with just curiosity when you’re experiencing those moments in the mirror when you’re hating on that belly roll. But that belly roll becomes more than a belly roll. It becomes like the complete reason why you are not loved and accepted and like why you have a shit relationship with your mom.
Jess:
You know what I mean? It’s like all of these things you put on this one part of your body only this. I want you to kind of, this is what I have clients do what I’m teaching in the program. It’s kind of like, okay, I want you to just gently stop, take a step back and ask yourself to ask yourself, what am I actually feeling? Like why am I actually feeling this? Until you get to an answer that doesn’t have to do with your body, like keep [inaudible]. You’re asking those questions because we get way too comfortable being content and just saying, well, it’s because I look like this, I’m done. You know what I mean? Like I’m done asking questions and it takes a lot of effort because the process of immediately blaming your body is a learned process and your brain takes a lot of stimuli to actually form those new pathways.
Jess:
So you have to get used to almost being like a second parent to yourself and saying, no, actually, but why do you feel that way? Okay, well what happened today was that conversation with your spouse like, well, what did that bring up? Well, I didn’t feel valued. I didn’t feel desired. Okay, what did that bring up? Right? It’s like you’re picking apart these things that you have combined for years and years and it’s very tedious, but you have to just bring space for awareness to ask yourself those questions and you’re not going to have all the answers and it’s going to be really hard and confusing, but that’s okay. It just needs to happen. [inaudible] [inaudible]
Jess:
I appreciate that. You know, backtracking just a little bit to what you said earlier, I know that a lot of folks in this space who are, you know, leading teaching, doing advocacy work, feel a, a bit of a conundrum. I don’t even know what the right word is. Feel a little bit conflicted sometimes because you know, we’re talking about being more than a body. We’re talking about the fact that we have so much more to offer than just our looks in our appearance. And yet I know you and, and myself and a lot of other people really believe in body autonomy and being able to do what you want with your body. Like can you help too? Cause I know this comes up a lot with my listeners. They’re like, well, okay, so is it bad that I like to get my nails done or am I vain and playing into this patriarchal desirability privilege if I really like my hair to look pretty, you know?
Jess:
Can you deconstruct that a little bit for us? Yeah. So for me it always comes down to being aware of your own motivations and asking yourself the questions because, and one of the things, one of the kind of stances where I differ a little bit is I can’t judge your motivations based on what you’re doing, what you’re wearing, whether you wear makeup, what the fuck? I don’t give a shit. You know what I mean? It’s like I am here and I know that you feel the same way to ask the questions to get you thinking. And then what you do with that is completely your responsibility. Because one of my frustrations in, I think this field is, it’s like this weird thing where we say, you know, yeah, like we are, you know, Bentonville, the patriarchy, and then people go and then they point fingers at other women doing other shit differently than them and they’re like, Oh, you’re really, why would you do that?
Jess:
Like liberation doesn’t look like that liberation looks like this, and they’re just kind of taking them out of [inaudible] one set of chains and bringing it to another. And I think that fundamentally if we believe that, you know, women are autonomous, we should not be telling them what to do at all. All that I hope for is to be able to say, Hey, are you asking yourself why it is you like these things? Are you asking yourself why it is you’re doing this because you are the only one who could be honest with yourself? You’re the only one who knows what you’re thinking and what you’re feeling and it’s just a matter of saying, Hey, are you hiding from that and lying to yourself or are you being brutally honest with yourself and know that that’s a process. There are some things that I find myself doing.
Jess:
Um, and I will and I will consciously be like, I’m totally having one of those conflicts where I’m like picking this pair of jeans because like I don’t want to wear this because I’m, I’m aware of how it makes me look. And just even being aware and choosing not to follow that action I think is a sign of strength because you are not going to be this perfect bubble of like, I’m perfectly liberated and I never feel the pressure of, you know, being aesthetically pleasing and yada yada. It’s like all that I could ask for is a radical sense of awareness because I think that that in of itself brings about change. I think you can’t help once your eyes are open. Once you’re asking yourself those questions and you’re creating that kind of discomfort in yourself, you can’t go back to ignorance. It’s impossible. You know what I mean?
Steph:
Well said. Well said. I really appreciate you, uh, giving us your thoughts on that. And um, you know, I just even jotted that down. All I can ask for is a radical sense of awareness. I mean, I think that’s a mic drop moment right there and, but like so powerful, right? Is that, you know, are we aware of our choices? Are we aligning our choices to our, you know, our values in our aware, our own purpose and the, the things that we’re trying to do, the things we value. And I think that you’re, you hit the nail on the head there. I mean, I can’t say whether or not doing a particular thing is
Jess:
right or wrong for anybody else. And then I do want to just add on because I didn’t mention this, but I also want to reiterate that like even in New York, um, journey to find liberation for yourself, remember that, that as well as not for anybody else. I think it’s really easy when you’re on Instagram and it’s, it’s very much this thing of like, you almost feel like, let’s say you’re putting on makeup and you almost feel like you should be ashamed because you’re partaking in this thing and, but, but I want to look at for this. You know what I’m saying? It’s like this weird thing, even in our sense of trying to find liberation, we’ve somehow corrupted it to be that there’s one kind of, it should look different for someone else. For example, like I myself have, I’d often on severe acne and it was such a large journey of like radical acceptance, redefining beauty standards, all that fun stuff.
Jess:
But I talk about skin a lot and I say, you know if there are days when like you, you want to wear makeup just because you can’t really bear it. Like you’re, you’re not going to stretch your confidence that day and you just want to wear makeup to cover up a little bit and you want to go out the house that is your prerogative. Like you are not failing at skin acceptance and you are not failing at liberation. Like, this is your journey. This is not for anybody else. And the steps with you, with what you take it with, whatever speed, with whatever, you know, when you want to go slow or you want to go faster, you want to, sometimes you need a break from all the questioning and the challenging, it’s yours, it’s yours for your life. It’s just for nobody else. And you’re not doing it for anybody else but yourself.
Steph:
100%. Yeah. I think there’s a lot of pressure for people who are in the stages of learning about these things and unpacking these things for themselves to them get stuck in the judgment right there. Like, you know, almost like, Oh, I slipped up and I wore makeup today cause I just couldn’t deal. And it’s like, Oh, that extra layer of then judgment on that. Yeah. It’s, um, it’s hard. It’s really tough. You know, you’ve mentioned already quite a few times the term liberation and I’m not sure everybody listening to this show will be familiar with what you mean by that. Would you, you know, sort of define what that means at least to you and your practice and what you’re working on?
Jess:
Um, it’s kind of my favorite term and it’s like my branded term and it, to me, living a liberated life is living a life where you are autonomous and you live your life for yourself and not for the pleasing or approval of other people. And a lot of people can sometimes take that to mean, Oh, well does that mean that you’re living a selfish life? Or does that mean that you’re very conceited or et cetera, et cetera? And really what it comes down to is I don’t think that the world benefits from women who are living to please other people. I think that what actually we desperately need for kindness and compassion and to solve the world’s problems in our individual life. And then like the larger aspect of the world is women showing up in their completely whole authentic selves. They are knowing who they are and then taking that step forward, they are unapologetically showing up as who they are and kind of peeling back the layers of all of the shows that they have carried around. Um, because it’s, uh, it’s suffocating you and the world doesn’t need carbon copies of people that looked like each other and talk like each other and are just fulfilling this role. So living a liberated life is really just that. It’s, it’s shutting the shuts and showing up unapologetically as who you are. And I think that there is nothing more like groundbreaking and lovely and kind and wonderful than when people are that in their life.
Steph:
Hmm. If you’ve given us some really concrete things to think about, if somebody was [inaudible] beginning this entanglement this, unlearning this learning a new way, I mean, what are some of the things, some of them, the skills I guess that you help people build? Because I think, um, in this arena, one of the things that sometimes comes up is that people get worried. They’re like, I’m not like that or I’ve bad like that. And I’m constantly coming back to like, we’re learning new skills. We’re like you mentioned earlier, building new habits and rewiring new pathways. What are some of the things that people, when you’re working with them really benefit from when they’re learning about liberation? Some of the skills. Yes. So there’s a couple of things.
Jess:
One, I think that’s incredibly important and lends to liberation so well is learning how to properly process, understand and release emotions. Um, I, I’ve always said that that therapy is like, so it’s stuck. I don’t know why there’s any shame attached to it anymore. It is brilliant having space, where you learn how to share and process with your feelings without judgment, is so important. And I, and my program teach something called rain and it’s like a mindfulness way of processing emotion. And it was created by a psychologist, I want to say in the 80s. And it’s essentially like, because we’re talking about conceptual things, right? We’re talking in the air about liberation and everyone’s like, Oh my God, that sounds so great, but how do I get there? And in, in practicing processing your emotions, you actually learn the tools of removing judgment from yourself, a, which is really important actually getting to the root of what you’re feeling and then being able to release it and process it in a healthy way, which is so necessary.
Jess:
And so it’s like the difference between, I’m always upset about my body, I’m so unhappy in my life versus I actually can separate my identity from my body and actually deal with what’s really going on internally. So it’s when you feel anything or you’re feeling, you know, maybe you don’t even know what you’re feeling, but you’re feeling upset or sad or frustrated, you’re find yourself anxious, you go through R. a. I. N. so it’s our recognized and like basically identify what are you feeling? Can you say this out loud? Okay, I’m feeling overwhelmed, I’m feeling anxious. And it, it’s, it’s kind of this basic step of, okay, well what do you feel? And I is kind of identifying exactly what that feels like in your, I mean a, sorry, I’m getting out of myself. A is acceptance. So a stands for, can you say, okay, this is how I feel and I accept this and this is actually the step I see people have the most problem with.
Jess:
Because often what we deal with and what causes us the most pain are something called meta emotion. So that means, um, the emotion you feel about your emotion, which I know we’re getting very deep in there, but it’s, it’s, it’s essential for an on the ground example, it’s like when you find yourself feeling, you know, let’s say you’re on this body acceptance journey and you’re finding yourself feeling really insecure about your body, and then you go, Oh, I thought I was over this. Like, why do I care so much about this? Like, Oh, I don’t want to be one of those girls who cares. You know what I’m saying? All of a sudden it’s not just this feeling, it’s all of the shame and shit we have about that feeling. And so an important step is being able to say, okay, I know what I feel and I’m accepting how I feel, and that is super, super helpful.
Jess:
Um, I mean an investigation. So it’s basically like you need to get curious. So why do I feel this way? Did any events occur recently that contributed to this? Is this emotion covering up another emotion like hurt or insecurity? Right? When we’re angry at her, you know what? I get angry at my husband and I asked myself, okay, well what does this really? And sometimes it’s covering up her or I don’t feel cared for, et cetera, et cetera. This is a really helpful step because it allows you to not use a scapegoat or the easy way out and you can actually start to pinpoint, Oh well this is where this is coming from. And now you can start to recognize patterns where previously you would have just someone sent me off and now I did this and now I’m reacting out of anger and now I’m reacting on my body.
Jess:
And now I all of a sudden, I don’t know why, but I feel the need to restrict my food. Right now you’re kind of breaking this up and you’re saying, Hmm, now I know where this is coming from. And it’s actually not about food at all. It’s about ABC, right? And then N is for non-identification or nourish. So essentially there’s kind of two steps. This non-identification is essentially reminding yourself that what you feel is not who you are. Right? And it’s kind of has to go down to that. This kind of has had to do with that meta emotions, but it’s essentially, I’m not attaching to the emotion, but kind of viewing those emotions as like waves, right? Because they come and they go. And a lot of times we’re so afraid to feel emotions, um, because we feel that they’ll break us and we’ve spent so many years suppressing or ignoring or numbing with TV or dieting or relationships or sex, et cetera, et cetera, that we are almost terrified of like, Oh, I can’t feel all my emotions fuck out.
Jess:
I’ll break. You know what I mean? That’s like a very common thing I hear. Like I don’t even know what’s going to come up and learning to kind of, even in the hardship, like it is a wave and once it comes, it will be released if you hold it with open hands. And then the nourishing part, um, is essential, it’s like I add, I added on another end and it’s essentially the last step is, okay, now that you’ve done that process, can you ask yourself, what do you, what you need? You know what I mean? And it’s this beautiful circle that you do where you undo, you know, you work through, you do the mental work, but then you ask yourself, Hey, like now that you know, now that you’ve done this work, what do you need? Do you need time alone? Do you need to talk to friends? Do you need a back? Do you need to go eat something? You know, do you need, what do you need? And it’s just a beautiful way to practice self-care in a very honest and practical way. Right? Self-care can sometimes be, you know, getting a massage, but a lot of times for me, at least in every day, it’s learning to care for myself like a parent.
Steph:
Absolutely. I love that. That’s super, super helpful. Um, and also mirrors a lot of what we do in intuitive eating and you know, honoring your emotions and looking at where the unmet need is. And I am, I was thinking as you were talking, one of the really helpful things I give people is the emotions wheel. Cause sometimes you don’t even know how we’re feeling. We’re just like, Oh right. And that goes back to, um, I feel fat, right? If you look at me emotions, I just had a feeling. Um, and like really I love how it starts really general. And then it as you work out in the emotions we own, we’ll probably link one of these in the show notes or you can just Google it and get one. Um, but it, it gets more and more and more refined. And I love, I love that. I think it’s such a powerful tool and I think wonderfully.
Jess:
Yes, no, absolutely. I love, I have an entire module about, I feel flat because it’s one of those things where you’re like, how many of us have said that in our life? Probably everyone. And I say big girls use big girl words, you know, like use a scapegoat of using that. Like what do you actually feel like expand your vocabulary to be more about your, to be more than your body? Um, because that’s not an emotion. Right? So I love that you haven’t [inaudible] wheel. I would love to see it. I don’t think I’ve seen one of those.
Steph:
Oh yeah, I can, I can send you one. Um, there’s several different versions out there, but it’s super powerful, right? And, and part of the intuitive eating process as well as learning how to identify your, how you feel and where in your body you feel it. And this is such a foundational thing that we work on and it’s so, so very powerful because sometimes like you said, we’re just overwhelmed. Like we don’t, we just started like, ah, right. Like I don’t even know how I feel. I just like [inaudible] and, and getting to the root of the unmet need and what that is. And I love those nourish ideas that you presented to us and how you can start, you know, taking care of yourself in the moment. And sometimes it is something as basic as getting some fresh air or sitting down for a few minutes, you know, eating signs can be very basic.
Jess:
Yeah, totally. And the reason why I think that that CEP is so important is that it teaches us to be an independent source of our own care. Because I think, I don’t know if you resonate with this, but a lot of what I’ve seen is maybe even me get to, okay, I know how I feel, but we’re often kind of taught to rely on, okay, now someone else has to come and like bring that comfort and though it’s totally communities necessary and important. I find that for a lot of us, we actually didn’t grow up with parents who gave us like exemplary, um, comfort. And so a lot of that times we feel abandoned or we feel that need is unmet and we keep looking to other people to fill it and teaching ourselves to I call reparent like fills ourselves in a way and heals wounds be like, didn’t even know that we had from childhood. And it’s so, so helpful.
Steph:
[inaudible] absolutely. I’m learning though, self-soothing techniques, the ones
Jess:
that [inaudible] and sometimes people are like, well, when I want a self suit I, you know, drink a lot. And I’m like, well, I mean it’s not, it’s not like I don’t have judgment on that, but it, it’s learning those things that actually, like you said, so, so pointedly are nourishing for you and like, is that really the most nourishing thing right now? And it, I mean, I don’t like, I don’t know. It’s hard to, for me to have judgment on that because right now if somebody if all they can do is just like checkout for a little bit and that’s what they’re going to do. I mean, yeah, I like, it’s hard for me to, to, to judge on that. Um, so, you know, it’s, it’s that process of unpacking, like, yeah. Yeah. Well and that’s it. I get this question a lot with like food, right?
Jess:
Cause a lot of people, I know that there’s an entire sector of dye culture that kind of profits off of like learn how to stop emotional eating and like, you know, never use food as comfort again. And it’s a really interesting conversation because food is comfort, you know, like food, like food totally can be comforting. And, and when someone comes to me and says that they use food to numb and like, um, Coke, I, my mind does not go to, Oh, we need to fix that. It goes like, I wonder what you’re like running away from because that’s actually, you know, whether you’re using food, whether you’re using TV, whether you’re using sex with, using, drinking, like you’re numbing something like there is pain there. And so instead of making it about the behavior, making it about, okay, well, Hey, are you ready to ask the hard questions?
Jess:
You know what I mean? Like, are you ready to actually figure out what exactly your system is trying desperately to escape from? Because that is where the healing is going to come. You know? Absolutely. It’s like that, that lighthouse signal drawing you in, right? Where, what could you learn from the situation? Good. So, so powerful. Oh my goodness. Oh, I cannot believe our time is already over. I feel like we could talk for so long on this. Um, but this has been so wonderful and informative. I would love for you to share where people can learn more about your work, how can they get in touch with you, where you know, where are you posting stuff online that they can learn and all that good stuff. Yeah. So you can find me on Instagram and on my site. So Instagram, my handle is wholly healed. Whole, like a whole pie, will be healed and same on my website, wholly healed.com and those, that’s where I hang out. Wonderful. Oh, this has been so great. I’m so grateful that you gave us your time today and um, suspend such a great experience just to Masi. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. Thank you so much.
Steph:
Absolutely. My pleasure. All right. That’s a wrap on this episode with Justin Massey of wholly healed, so incredibly grateful to Jess for coming on the show today and really unpacking some of these complicated topics, talking about her acronym that she shares rain to help process emotions. And I really hope that this has given you some point of view different than my own of course on how we can start to really embrace our bodies and own our power. Remember, if you are curious at all about intuitive eating coaching, I have another small group coaching program that’s going to be opening very soon. I should say another cohort that’s going to be running really soon. You can find out more information pop into the Facebook group and the core four club. You can go to my website, Steph gaudreau.com and if you’re really struggling to find the links, send me an email and I will send that to you there.
Steph:
I wouldn’t love for you to join. This is high level like really targeted coaching around intuitive eating, body image and learning how to trust and listen to your body in a world that tells you you can’t do that. I would love to invite you to just even if you’re curious, hop on over to the email list, to the newsletter list that I have for that and find out more information. All right, that’ll do it. Remember we’re going to be renaming the show. I’m letting you know now. It should be happening in the next, I would say a few weeks. I don’t have an exact target date yet. There is nothing for you to worry about or do. If you’re already subscribed to the show, we’re just going to give it a facelift and a new name, and I’ll be talking about all the details why that is relatively soon. So stay tuned for that. And until next week, be well!
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