Opting Out Of Diet Culture w/ Naomi Katz

There is a huge difference between blaming diet culture and blaming the dieter who participates in that culture. Naomi Katz is a body image and self-trust coach who is here today to break down some of the nuance and questions you may have surrounding diet culture and help you stop victim-blaming.

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Ways To Address Diet Culture

Scrutinizing individuals who partake in diet culture instead of recognizing the systematic and cultural factors at play in this issue is an easy mistake to make, but it can have severe repercussions for those around you. Today Naomi is here to promote body diversity, give you tips for getting out of the diet culture yourself, and provide you with ways to address diet culture with those you love who are still engrained in the culture with empathy.

It is so important to support individuals at various points of their health journey even if it means they are still participating in diet culture. By seeking out information about what diet culture really is, you can create an opportunity of connection so that you and those you love can start making body autonomous decisions.

Instead of playing into body hierarchy it is time to step up for autonomy over everything and move forward with the intentions you inherently want for yourself and those you love. If you want to remain critical and conversational around diet culture while also holding dieters and people who chose that lifestyle in respect and empathy, you can’t miss this episode.

What role has diet culture and body autonomy played in your view of self-worth and relationships with others? Share your experience with us in the comments below.

On Today’s Episode

  • How you can hold the individual in a place of respect in regards to diet culture (12:40)
  • Tips for supporting individuals at various points of their diet culture journey (17:50)
  • Ways to move from diet culture into a space of making body autonomy choices (19:38)
  • Helpful methods to help those you love who are embedded in diet culture (23:03)
  • Practices to help keep the lines of communication open around anti-diet culture (30:10)

Resources Mentioned In This Show

Happy Shapes Website

Follow Naomi on Instagram

LTYB 272: Steph Gaudreau 

Join the Listen To Your Body Newsletter

Nutritional Therapy Association Website

Join the Core 4 Facebook Club

Quotes

“When we’re talking about anti-diet spaces, we’re not really talking about anti-dieter spaces so much as we are talking about anti-diet culture spaces.” (13:14)

“Blaming dieters, acting in an anti-dieter way, is very much like a victim-blaming the situation, and obviously none of us want to be participating in that. Sometimes it’s helpful to look at anti-diet culture as being pro a lot of other things.” (17:45)

“I think one the best ways to begin opting out of diet culture is to become hyper-aware of where it is popping up in your life and to curate your feed, curate your life kind of situation.” (20:53)

“I think it’s important to look back at where we were, where we came from, and how long it may have taken us to find our way out. Because opting out of diet culture is not a simple thing, it takes work and it is a process.” (24:40)

“We are not blaming dieters here, we are blaming the culture for all of this stuff. And it is important for us to draw boundaries and draw differences between what is individual and autonomous behavior, and behavior that actually out worldly upholds the culture and may harm other people.” (31:22)

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Listen To Your Body Podcast is sponsored by the Nutritional Therapy Association. Registration is now open for the NTA’s Nutritional Therapy Practitioner Online Program. Learn more and save your seat (and don’t forget to mention my name on your application!)

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Opting Out Of Diet Culture w/ Naomi Katz FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steph:
This is episode 273 of the listen to your body podcast today on the show, Naomi Katz is dropping by to talk about the difference between blaming diet culture and blaming the dieter. Now, before we hop into this episode, just a quick reminder that as of last week, Harder To Kill Radio is now called the Listen To Your Body podcast. There is no new feed to subscribe to, but if you haven’t hit the subscribe button yet to this show, then go ahead and do that. It will make sure that new episodes goes to your device every single Tuesday, so Harder To Kill Radio as a name is now gone. If you want the backstory about why that is, then hop back to last week’s episode and give that a quick listen before you listen to this show. All right, let’s do it. The next evolution of harder to kill radio is here. Welcome to the Listen To Your Body podcast. On this show, we’ll explore the intersection of body, mind, and soul health and help you reclaim your abilities to eat and move more intuitively. Hear your body’s signals and trust yourself more deeply.

I’m Steph Gaudreau, a certified intuitive eating counselor, nutritional therapy practitioner, and strength coach. On this podcast, you can expect to hear expert guest interviews and solo chats that will help you deepen your trust with food movement and your body. Remember to hit the subscribe button and share this podcast with your friends and loved ones. Now onto the show

Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for joining me today on the listen to your body podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sticking with me through the name change that just occurred last week. I hope you’re going to find that actually this gives us a much broader jumping-off point to talk about new and interesting things, but with the same old fierce love flavor that I am always bringing. So we will continue with guest episodes. We’ll continue with solo episodes and kinda just keep rolling. Kind of along the same vein of things that we’ve talked about in the last six months or so and today is no exception to that. Naomi, cats of happy shapes is on the show today. She is just the most wonderful. If you’re not familiar with her, you’re going to want to head over and follow her after this episode.

She’s really coming on the show today to talk about a lot of nuance and a lot of questions that oftentimes come up, right? We’re exploring a lot of nuance in this podcast now that is the listen to your body podcast. A lot of nuance with things like diet culture with things like how we talk about body autonomy versus wanting to change and like just so much stuff. There’s so much to uncover. There are so many layers and so many facets to dive into and today we’re doing a very specific one are really narrowing down on this show. There’s a lot of talk about, you know, if I feel like I want to change my body, I’m getting shamed for it or I feel shameful for it, I feel like it’s wrong and Naomi is really unpacking this topic today. Like, what’s the difference between blaming diet culture versus blaming the diameter?

And I know that you’re going to find that this is super duper helpful. Before we jump into the show today, a couple of things. The first is if you want to join my newsletter all about intuitive eating, developing more body trust, healing the relationship between food and your body, then you’re going to want to get on my Listen To Your Body newsletter. This is a different newsletter than my normal, kind of like Steph gaudreau.com big newsletter. But this is really targeted toward folks who want to know more about how to keep building this capacity to listen to your body. What does that mean? How do you develop more trust, body neutrality, body acceptance? That sounds like your jam. You want to learn more, then go to Stephgaudreau.com/LTYB, Listen To Your Body. So Stephgaudreau.com/LTYB and join the newsletter there.

And you know, one of the best things I ever did for myself professionally was to put myself through the nutritional therapy associations NTP program. I did that in 2018 and I really looking back can see how incredibly important it was in my ability to be able to approach and address people’s nutrition from a really bio-individual approach, from a range of nutritional strategies, everything from how to properly prepare foods, how to restore balance in the body, how to include things like emotional wellbeing, the role of the environment, sleep, movement, stress. All of that was so incredibly powerful, so important in my ability to listen to my body, to my ability to coach people through what that’s like. The NTA is the sponsor of today’s show and I want to encourage you if you’ve been wondering what their programs are like, what you’ll learn in terms of motivational interviewing, your clinical and practical skills, everything that you need to know to be able to work with people from a bio-individual approach to nutrition, head over to their website, nutritional therapy.com there’s a link also in my show notes that you can check it out. And if you want to hear my episode that I did on nutritional therapy, then go ahead and tune in to episode one 88 their registration is now open and seats are going to fill up pretty quickly. So go over to nutritional therapy.com learn more and of course, if you join, don’t forget to mention my name on your application.

Welcome back to the podcast Naomi, what’s going on with my friend?

Naomi:
Hey Steph, how ya doing & thanks for having me.

Steph:
Oh, I’m doing super well and I am so excited that you’re here. Today we are going to be talking about one of the areas, uh, ah, diet, anti-diet and to it of eating, whatever you want to call all this, the universe that we’re in that is so tricky for people. And I see some discussion about this stuff. But one other thing is I was so keen on having you on the podcast to talk about is your thoughts about dissecting this particular thing that we’re going to talk about because you do it so very well and in an [inaudible] in a time and a place where nuance is often so lacking in our online worlds, you are doing such an incredible service in not only your work but also specifically this topic.

Steph:
So I just wanted to start out by saying thanks for that.

Naomi:
So thank you for saying that. I really appreciate it.

Steph:
Yeah. Yeah. So, um, for anybody that’s not familiar with you, we’re not going to have you give your whole backstory, but I’m curious to know if there’s like a, you know, I sort of think of like the hero’s journey, but, um, what brought you to this world of body image coaching, self-trust coaching, and the universe that you’re now inhabiting? Because I feel like for a lot of people this is, it’s a process to get to this point. So, yo, why are you so passionate about doing this work?

Naomi:
Yeah, a process is definitely the right word for, um, so, um, I mean a very little bit of a backstory. I am turning 40 this year and I have definitely spent at least half of my life trying to control the size and shape of my body, um, with diet and workouts and sometimes in a way, less healthy ways. I have a history of an eating disorder and then, you know, after that, just chronic dieting for just so, so very long. And that’s actually how I started. I started out as a personal trainer and a nutrition coach. And I just, even as I started to disconnect, um, you know, food and exercise from body size, I still was having, it was still very caught up in the connection to like, Oh, this hierarchy of health. And I found that especially with my clients, even if I was very clear about not being a weight loss coach and even if I was very clear about mostly being interested in helping them get healthier, um, ultimately everybody was still coming to me for weight loss. And ultimately I was still really facilitating that and it was never really giving people what they needed, um, just like it didn’t give me what I needed as when I pursued it. And so, um, you know, just to sum up, ultimately I felt like I needed to leave that field altogether and pursue what I saw as the underlying issues there, which would be the body image and self-trust and you know, now going forward, intuitive eating as a way to sort of bring those things together.

Steph:
Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. I think that your experience is so common amongst some of the folks that I know who are doing this work. And you know, even to a large extent myself where you’re kind of in this world, it may be beneficial. It runs sometimes runs its course, right? You get out of it what you were meant to get out of it, but then sometimes you realize that it’s gone a little bit too far. And I always say things work until they don’t, right? It’s working until you realize it’s not working. And then what do you do? And I think it’s so [inaudible] Mmm. I think it does take courage to say this old familiar way of doing things is familiar and comfortable, even though it may not be in resonance with what I realize now going on. But to actually leave those spaces and pursue new spaces to help people, I think it is, it tastes a lot of gumption and it’s probably not the most comfortable. So I, I just wanted to give you a shout out for that and just say like, I know it’s not easy to, to forge a new path, right? To move in that new direction. Yeah.

Naomi:
Well, thank you. And same to you cause I know you’re doing a lot of that these days as well. Yeah, it’s fantastic. Um,

Steph:
Yeah, it’s fantastic. Um, so one of the things that comes up a lot in, uh, we’re both, uh, intuitive eating folks. Um, I think you went through the program to be certified just a hair after I did and doing work in this world. And there’s a lot of crossover with the anti-diet world and anti-diet dieticians and health at every size intuitive eating body autonomy and so on and so forth. And one of the things that I see a lot is there’s kind of a knee jerk reaction to this work sometimes and saying, well, I still want maybe weight loss or fat loss, or I want some kind of aesthetic change out of the efforts that I’m making in my life. But I feel like if I start dipping my toe into this pool of the anti-diet world, the intuitive eating world, the health at every size world, I met with a lot of Mmm, backlash resistance. I met with what I perceive as perhaps feeling like I’m shamed for wanting choices or wanting these changes in my body. So I think you navigate this world really well and I just want to like let you go and sort of give us your thoughts on how we can hold the individual in a place of respect and, and realize that they do have autonomy while also perhaps providing commentary about things like diet culture.

Naomi:
Yeah. So I mean, I think part of this is sort of understanding that obviously when we’re talking about anti-diet spaces, we’re not really talking about anti dieters spaces so much as we’re talking about anti-diet culture spaces. But I think that it’s very easy, especially when people are still in the dieting mentality and still practicing dieting behaviors too, sort of feel a need, like a, an almost defensive reaction to being in these spaces. Um, because you know, it’s, it’s not always that clear, but people are responding to as in the anti there. And I think that [inaudible] anti-diet spaces, there’s a lot of ’em an inclination to print tech people from triggering conversations about what dieting behaviors and that’s fair. And obviously we all need to set boundaries and protect ourselves from things that are triggering are harmful to us. And diet talk itself is not a neutral act. It definitely has, um, repercussions for people around, especially people who may be in a larger body or who may be recovering from dismembered eating behaviors or even just people who are going through their own work to disengage from diet culture.

Naomi:
Having said all of that [inaudible] Mmm. Placing all the blame and responsibility on individuals instead of recognizing the systemic and cultural factors at play is kind of a classic diet culture move and not something that we in an anti-diet culture face, want to be participating in. And so what means is recognizing that the culture is the problem, not the individuals who are participating in the dieting behaviors themselves. Um, so, you know, when I say the culture, I’m talking about, you know, the culture that focuses on a body hierarchy, that there’s really one right way to have a body and that that ideal body is, you know, white, cisgender, thin, lightly toned, um, et cetera. Um, the culture that, you know, sells us actual diets and dieting products and then when they don’t work, which they don’t, and we all know that convinces us that the problem is that we are, we lack the willpower or the discipline or whatever to, um, to get the results that they’ve promised.

Naomi:
Um, it’s a culture of competition and comparison and pitting up each other, pitting ourselves against each other, um, and it, you know, prioritizes appearance over everything else. And it ignores all the social end genetic reasons that we have body diversity. Um, and uh, yeah, so that’s the culture that we’re anti, which is [inaudible], which is vague obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it’s massive and I appreciate you giving us some of those examples because that was going to be my next question. If people are still a little fuzzy on like I’ve heard diet culture, but I don’t exactly know what it is. I think you did an amazing job giving us some examples. Thank you. Um, yeah, and, and you know, the thing is that this culture is super pervasive. I think, you know, especially those of us in the anti-diet space, but there’s a David Foster Wallace quote where he basically compares, he talks about fish swimming and water and like not really recognizing the water around them because they’re in it so much and it takes somebody like telling them about water or for them to know that it’s there and that that correlates to diet culture really well.

Naomi:
Like it’s so pervasive and we’re surrounded by it so much that like we don’t even really know it’s there. I mean definitely aren’t always aware of how it’s affecting us and because of how pervasive that is and because of all the ways that it seeps into our lives. I, I, you know, honestly, I think that blaming dieters like acting in an anti-diet or way is very much like a victim-blaming kind of a situation. And obviously none of us want to be participating in that. Mmm. And so I think that sometimes it’s helpful to look at anti-diet culture as being a pro, a lot of other things. So, um, you know, diet culture definitely doesn’t encourage compassion or autonomy or inclusion or informed choices or any of those things. And so being anti-diet, I feel like it’s much more of like a pro will all of those things. Um, and that part of that necessarily supports being pro supporting individuals at their various points in their journey, even if that means that they’re still participating in dieting behavior.

Steph:
Well, that was going to be one of my next questions is I can see this from two different perspectives, at least where I’m going in my head. The first perspective would be the person who realizes as you’ve, you’ve pointed out the David Foster Wallace analogy of the fish being in water, the person who is perhaps engaging in the, in diet culture and dieting behavior and they’re starting to perhaps learn and realize that it’s complicated, right? Like there’s a, there’s a lot of stuff going on and it can be really shift, like really super disorienting when you first start to lift those glasses of weight or, you know, there’s another way of looking at this. And then the sort of flip side of that I see a lot is people who are, have really done a lot of work. They’ve been in the space a little bit longer and they perhaps get impatient with people who are still very much, and I will be the first to admit sometimes I’m, you know, I’m having a discussion and I’m just like, why don’t they get it?

Steph:
And I’m, I just think you didn’t get it either, you know, like hello, go back 10 years. Did you realize your own internalized fatphobia? Did you know what all these different things were? And so, you know, how, uh, let’s maybe look at the first scenario. You’re the person who is starting, who is engaging in diet behavior. Like how do you start to, or how do you hold that in tension, I guess with moving forward and making choices that are really coming from a place of body autonomy and not necessarily being driven by the shame of diet culture.

Naomi:
Well, so I think that one of the best places to start, like let’s say you are a person who is still engaging in dieting behaviors, but maybe you’re open to the idea of anti-diet culture concepts. Um, I think that seeking out education sources and really just sort of reading about what diet culture is, is really helpful. I think that was, I mean that was a game-changer for me and it’s a game-changer for my clients too. And so in some ways I think, you know, I often think of one of the best ways to begin opting out of diet culture is to become hyper-aware of where it is popping up in your life. And to sort of like curate your feed, curate your life kind of situation, you know, look at what’s coming up in your social media feed, what’s coming up on the TV shows you watch and the magazines that you need and things like that. And where are you seeing this, like this body hierarchy pop up and how does that make you feel? Because I think for most of us it doesn’t make us feel very good and that’s, I think really recognizing that is like the key to want to take that first step to opt-out of diet culture [inaudible] I think that curating your feed and curating your life to sort of, um, rough to two, really be able to see where diet culture is popping up, where those body hierarchies are popping up over and over again. And really paying attention to how seeing that makes you feel is a, in tuning into that feeling is a, is a great way to sort of work up to taking that first step to opt-out of data culture.

Steph:
Yeah. [inaudible] that’s, that’s really helpful. Um, let’s say you’re on the, so the second scenario that I gave a sort of, you, you’ve been in, you’ve been learning about what diet culture is. You’ve been educating yourself, you’ve been reading, you’ve been challenging the things you thought you knew as the truth. You know, the one that’s the dominant way that we see dieting being perpetuated in our culture. And then you start to learn, you’ve started to opt-out, you’ve started to do a lot of the things that you’re doing and then maybe your friend, somebody you care about, somebody you love is in that space of being, you know, they’re still in, they’re still very much embedded in diet culture. They don’t see how do you, or how w what are some of the things you would recommend for people that are in that space because they just want to go but can’t you see all the things that are hurting you and they like, I think it comes from a really genuine and pure place.

Steph:
Um, but it can come off as being right super. You know, almost like people who diet are the problem. You said this earlier of like, no, we shouldn’t be dieting and no, we, we shouldn’t be doing this and it’s harming you and that can be kind of the knee jerk reaction to the things like the diet talk or, or whatnot. So for people that are in that space, in their process, what would you say to them? What are some of the things that you’ve seen have been helpful? So that we’re not just necessarily alienating everybody who we care about, right.

Naomi:
Cause the alienation is obviously not what we’re going for here. Um, so yeah, there’s, there’s a couple of things that I think are really helpful. Um, the first is just starting from a place of empathy. Um, it’s you know, realistically it’s helpful to reflect on how recently you yourself may have been caught up in diet culture. Um, for most of us becoming aware of diet culture or making the decision to opt-out of it is a pretty recent thing. Um, and I think it’s important to look back at where we were, where we came from and how long it may have taken us to find our way out. Um, cause opting out of diet culture is, you know, it’s not a simple thing. It takes work. It’s a process. And, um, you know, being empathetic to that and other people is I think really important. Um, and included in that is recognizing that there are a lot of reasons that people may engage in dieting behaviors, um, that, you know, we should be compassionate about. You know, one of the big ones that stick out to me is, um, the seeking of safety and acceptance for people in marginalized bodies.

Naomi:
Um, you know, personally as a person with lots of body privilege, I could never criticize somebody for making that choice for themselves. And so starting from a place of empathy and understanding that there are so many reasons why this might be going on is, you know, it’s a really good way to avoid blaming and shaming. Mmm. Uh, in addition to that, I think that talking to people who are still in that diet in place, especially if they’re really dug into that, uh, that bombarding them with lots of clinical information, you know, studies and facts and all of that, regardless of how true or important or how well researched they might be, really only results in defensiveness. And so working from a personal place is, I think generally a better option. Um, I think that when we put people on the defensive, it tends to cause one of two reactions.

Naomi:
Um, either it causes them to dig in even deeper and into like denying the existence of diet culture or defending it, um, or it causes them to feel a lot of shame, um, you know, guilt for not seeing it, feeling like they’re left behind or not making progress or whatever. And so one of the ways to avoid that is to like I said, the work from a personal place. So instead of, you know, when people are talking about their diets, rolling your eyes and rattling off a bunch of data or making arguments using ice statements and personal observations. So you know, something like, I’ve found that I’m feeling much happier in my body since I stopped dieting or I’m feeling that I am, you know, a lot more freedom and comfort around foods and he’s, I stopped dieting and then just sort of leave them to absorb it.

Naomi:
You’ve planted a seed, you’ve shown them that, that, that there’s another way instead of just telling them. And it also creates an opportunity for connection so that perhaps when they get to the point that they’re ready to start taking anti-diet steps, they may come to you and ask you more questions because they feel like, you know, you aren’t going to attack them. They feel like, you know, you’ve been there. Um, and then, um, you know, the last thing that I think is really helpful is to offer support in a way that doesn’t necessarily support the importance of intentional weight loss. Um, so I think a lot of times when people are seeking weight loss when they’re engaging in dieting behaviors, they’re what they’re really seeking or feelings of, you know, connection and love and worthiness and things like that. And I think it’s possible to make them feel that without commenting on their bodies or their weight loss. So, you know, giving compliments about possibly a personality trait that’s being demonstrated through their behaviors. So, you know, consistency, dedication, perseverance, hard work, things like that. Or you know, commenting about, Oh, you seem to be in a much better mood or even just saying I’m glad you feel better. Or something like that.

Steph:
You said this earlier, you know like there are a lot of people who get immediately turned off to the concept of anti dieting without it. And I always think like, Oh no, like it would be amazing for them to stay open enough to even learn a little bit. But there’s a lot of, and I, I, I wonder sometimes, you know, obviously diet culture in general, being late to so many other systems of oppression and interlinked with them and overlapped with them, you know, is it, is this just a way that diet culture than as a dominant paradigm continues to perpetuate? Right. Because we’re like, no, no, no, we can’t, you know, and not as an individual, but like there’s this collective sort of like, no, no, no, that’s, we can’t anti-diet. That’s just too extreme or it’s too crazy. And, and so I think what you shared is really going to be helpful for people to keep the lines of communication open instead of people saying like, Oh no, you’re just, you know, diet. You know, anti-dieting is not going to work for me.

Naomi:
Right. And you know, you, you make a, you make a good point, which is that we are talking about what is ultimately a system of oppression. And, you know, dieting itself as a behavior is a decision that everybody has the right to make for themselves. You know, it’s autonomy, everything, right? But, but you know, obviously, there are, you know, diet talk, for instance is not just a thing that’s between you and yourself. It’s definitely something that affects people around us. It upholds the culture. And so while I do, like I, like I’ve said, I don’t, I don’t think we can, you know, obviously, there’s no, we’re not blaming dieters here. We’re not, we’re blaming the culture for all of this stuff. And it’s important for us to draw a boundary is and draw differences between what is individual and autonomous behavior and behavior that actually outwardly upholds the culture and may harm other people like diet talk.

Steph:
Well, I was gonna ask you, I mean, on a personal level,  you know, how do you make that determination if you’re in a group of say, mixed company, this is not, you’re not at a like an anti-diet, a workshop or something. Um, and I know you run some of those in your local area, but let’s say you’re in mixed company and people begin to engage in diet talk. I think one of the questions people have is like, I’m not sure, should I say something? Should I not say something? Should I change the subject? When do I make a boundary? Like, is it safe for me to stay a boundary? Those sorts of things, like on a [inaudible] personal level, can you share with us your thought process on that?

Naomi:
Definitely. So I think obviously this is something that it very much depends on the group and the people that you’re with and you know, your own ability to deal with confrontation and things like that. I actually am a really big proponent, especially if you’re in a place where you know, you’re not necessarily ready to get into everything or you’re with people who may be, aren’t super open to hearing that, that a simple change of subject is actually great. Um, there’s, there’s really no reason that that, that’s not, but that wouldn’t work. Um, but you know, similar to the, um, praising things that dieting behaviors are demonstrating that are not weight loss. You can do what I like to call a non sequitur, a compliment. So this is something where let’s say that somebody is making some, you know, fatphobic, essentially it comments about themselves, about, you know, their appearance or how they feel about themselves or um, you know, moral judgments about food or things like that.

Naomi:
Um, again, I think a lot of times what people are really looking for is some reassurance. Um, and so instead of taking the route of like, Oh no, you’re not this, you’re that. And sort of feeding into the idea that somebody is are better than others and there are certain things that you want to avoid being, I think that giving a about something that has nothing to do with their bodies can give them that same sense of reassurance. So let’s say somebody is saying, you know, Oh, I know, I mean obviously fat’s not a feeling. But again, in this context, if somebody says, Oh, I’m feeling so fat today, and then you compliment them on their haircut or their outfit or their nail polish or something like that, it’s a little bit of a reassurance without playing into that concept of body hierarchy or the idea that fat itself is a bad thing to be

Steph:
Well, and that kind of plays into, I feel like what a lot of us learned growing up, um, which is the opposite and immediate reaction, which is like, Oh no, you’re not this. And then that even I think people realizing that when they, Oh no, no, no, you’re not that. Then, it does create the sensation that that thing is bad and you’re not that. So we need to not be that, but we’re just going to change the subject and reinforce the fact that you’re not that and because that is bad, fat is bad or whatever. Then, the body thing that we’re talking about is bad. Um, I think that concept for a lot of people is even a bit like, Oh, I didn’t, I’ve never thought of it that way. Yeah, definitely. That’s super helpful. Well, this is, I can’t believe how fast the time has flown by. This has been such a great conversation. I really appreciate your take your nuance on it. You know, how do we, how do we remain critical and conversational about diet culture so we can start to unpack it and really get to the roots while also holding dieters and people who choose that as an autonomous behavior or just are in, it’s still like how do we hold them in respect and care? And like you said, empathy. I think this is such an important distinction and I really appreciate you coming on to share it with us.

Naomi:
Thank you. I’m so glad that we got to have this conversation. I, you’re right at the time, totally flew by.

Steph:
It is, it’s crazy how fast the half-hour goes by. Will you let us know how can people get more involved, um, with you, the work that you’re doing, learn more about everything that you’re up to?

Naomi:
Yeah. So, um, I, my website is happy shapes.co. that’s co, not com. Um, and you’ll find ways to work with me and um, courses and blogs and stuff like that there. And then, uh, social media. I’m most active on Instagram and that’s at Happy Shapes Naomi.

Steph:
Wonderful. We’re going to like all that in the show notes. Super big plug for a year. Uh, Instagram is amazing. I share, you know, I like everything that you share. It makes me think personally like I learned things from you. Um, it makes me pause and reflect and see how I can do better. Um, I loved, you know, sharing the posts that you put up in my stories from time to time. I think it’s all really important stuff. So definitely go and hop on a Naomi’s Instagram if you’re listening to this and we’ll link all that in the show notes.

Naomi:
Yeah. Thank you so much, Stephanie.

Steph:
I really appreciate that. Naomi, Katz, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really appreciate you. Thank you so much. Alrighty. That does it for our episode with Naomi cats of happy shapes. Isn’t she freaking amazing? She’s, I just cannot express how much I appreciate the things that she articulates with regard to the crazy amount of nuance that exists in this space. She does a phenomenal job and I hope that you learned some takeaways. I know you did. I like whatever the takeaways were. Um, I hope that you carry those with you as you move forward on your own journey. It’s so incredibly valuable. If you want the show notes for this episode with links to everything that Naomi’s up to and a full transcript. So if you want to read along with listening or you just want to pass this on to a friend or a loved one, you can get that at my website, stephgaudreau.com all right, until next week when I’ll be back with another incredible episode of the listen to your body podcast, be well!

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Hi, I'm Steph!

Lord of the Rings nerd, cold brew drinker, and depending on who you ask, crazy cat lady. My mission is to help you fuel for more, not less: bigger muscles, strength, energy, and possibilities. We’ll do it with my signature blend of science, strategy…and a little bit of sass.

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